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Legality of coilguns, railguns and other electromagnetic projectile accelerators

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GhostNull

Sat Mar 20 2010, 07:16AM

Registered Member #2648 Joined: Sun Jan 24 2010, 12:45PM
Location: Australia
Posts: 291

Hey all

I know that coilguns and railguns can be very powerful and dangerous.
So if coilguns and railguns are so dangerous then aren't there any laws restricting the fabrication and use of them (in Australia)?

ragnar

Sat Mar 20 2010, 10:35AM

Registered Member #63 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425

GhostNull wrote ...
So if coilguns and railguns are so dangerous then aren't there any laws restricting the fabrication and use of them (in Australia)?

No serious-enough injury has occurred (yet) to warrant a media theater by vote-hungry politicians, nor have they found any Arab hobbyist scapegoats to need an excuse to incriminate.

Dave Marshall

Sat Mar 20 2010, 01:42PM

Registered Member #16 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:22PM
Location: New Wilmington, PA
Posts: 554

They actually are restricted in a number of countries, as they're frequently classed along side compressed air powered pellet/bb guns. Australia has some rather strict firearms laws and may well be one of those countries. I don't know of any country that bans them outright, but in many places they are technically restricted to ridiculously small amounts of energy.

Here in the US, being that they are not explosively propelled, they skirt just about every firearms law. Heck, people in many states may still own and operate their own cannons, so long as they follow certain rules.

-Dave

rp181

Sat Mar 20 2010, 04:01PM

Registered Member #1062 Joined: Tue Oct 16 2007, 02:01AM
Location:
Posts: 1529

I am fairly sure that Australia restricts them to <2 joules kinetic energy.
In the US, as Dave said, it falls right outside the law. It is legal to make your own weapons (even powder based) As long as there is less than 5g of propellant, and you do not sell it or transport it across state borders.
Dont quote me on that, its just what I remember from previous conversations.

Hon1nbo

Sat Mar 20 2010, 07:54PM

Registered Member #902 Joined: Sun Jul 15 2007, 08:17PM
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1040

in Hawaii they have laws Specific to electrically accelerated projectiles so as long as you aren't there you're safe in the US
the main law that could be used in the US and many countries that do not have legal restrictions is the declaration of a Destructive Device. As a scientific tool, these things are not declared as destructive devices for a number of reasons: they are of relatively low capabilities to a powder gun, they are usually much bulkier and hard to use in an offensive way (the cap bank would make it hard to carry around as a weapon, and the time it takes to charge and reload help in it being impractical to use). However, if it is evident that a device is being used in a destructive way (destruction of property, assault, etc) then it can be classified as a weapon requiring normal gun regulation. However, even if it does become regulated I reckon the ATF will do the same thing they did with spud guns, which is to make a classification for them. Spud guns, as many people are unaware, may be firearms be are legal because the ATF made a classification along the lines of "vegetative recreational firearm" and the permit simply requires sending a local ATF field office a drawing of the pipe layout, and the propellant choice and if requested they can inspect the built device. It can be a destructive device, but it is primarily a recreational device. They are simply making sure that they are being used safely, without a target (unless that target is something BUILT as a target lol). If you are using it in a controlled environment I should see no reason to be afraid, but if you use it in public some people might freak out and local authorities may not know what to do so they may confiscate it until they can sort it out.

Hobbies such as this are in a gray area of law, so just don't do anything to put it on the wrong side of the neutral zone. If you must use a space not controlled by you for such things, it is best to inform local authorities and property owners ahead of time and be open to explaining things.

I thought my flame projector for my school film would be taken and destroyed if I built it, but all it took was a call to the fire department and after explaining the construction, safety measures, etc they gave me approval.

laws can be intimidating, especially if the ones in place do not have clauses applicable to special situations, whether it be my small scale flame device or a hobbyist coil gun.

If you are unsure, contact someone locally. However, I do caution you to make sure the person you contact understands what you are doing. If you are unsure, offer a demonstration or send him some drawings or details. Even if he thinks something bad is going on, its better that you ask him and be open about it than to have done it quietly and have someone find out!

I hope all of this helps.

-Jimmy

GhostNull

Sun Mar 21 2010, 09:17AM

Registered Member #2648 Joined: Sun Jan 24 2010, 12:45PM
Location: Australia
Posts: 291

Thanks

so to sum it up so far:

In most countries they are restricted (most likely including Australia).
But given that it is not used with malice, you talk to local authorities and it does not exceed a power limit then is should be okay.

Hon1nbo

Sun Mar 21 2010, 03:00PM

Registered Member #902 Joined: Sun Jul 15 2007, 08:17PM
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1040

GhostNull wrote ...

Thanks

so to sum it up so far:

In most countries they are restricted (most likely including Australia).
But given that it is not used with malice, you talk to local authorities and it does not exceed a power limit then is should be okay.

generally speaking, yes - however some of the countries that do have restrictions, particularly where their definition of a weapon only applied indirectly (e.g. definition does not specify method of propulsion or intent) then they might have you fill out a permit, but you should be fine
except in hawaii, where I've read people have had problems for some reason with the state's laws

good luck!

GhostNull

Tue Jun 01 2010, 08:04AM

Registered Member #2648 Joined: Sun Jan 24 2010, 12:45PM
Location: Australia
Posts: 291

I sent this question to Lawmail a for legal advice service for youth. They said:

Dear Ken,

Thank you for the LawMail you sent from our website, Lawstuff, on 29 May 2010.

You asked about the legality of making your own coil gun. We understand that youâ€™re around 14 years old.

Please note that we canâ€™t give you specific legal advice, but we can give you some general legal information.

A coil gun isnâ€™t specifically mentioned in the Firearms Act 1996 (ACT), but itâ€™s very likely that it would be considered a firearm â€“ in particular, a prohibited firearm.

It may be defined as a firearm because it is capable of propelling a projectile with some sort of explosive force. Also, many coil guns look like firearms in the parts used, such as a pistol grip. This replication of the structure and features of a firearm would also bring the gun under the definition of a prohibited item.

Even if a coil gun doesnâ€™t fall under these regulations, a police officer may still confiscate a coil gun if they believe, on reasonable grounds, that it would pose a safety risk to anyone if used.

Itâ€™s important to note that the maximum punishment for having or using an unlicensed firearm or prohibited firearm, is 5-10 years imprisonment.

If a coil gun is considered a firearm, but not a prohibited firearm, itâ€™s possible to get a firearms licence for it. However, the rules for getting a licence are very strict. You would need to prove that you would use it for a practical purpose, like for firearms training, hunting or shooting at a range. You might also have trouble getting a licence for a coil gun if itâ€™s home made and doesnâ€™t have certain things like a serial number.

If youâ€™re interested in the technology used in creating a coil gun, maybe it would be a good idea to do some research into other projects that you could build which use capacitors and magnets.

We hope you find this information useful, Ken. Please contact us again if you have any more questions.

TELL US WHAT YOU THINK

What did you think of this information and how we helped you? As our client, your opinion will help us to help children and young people who want to know about their rights.

You can tell us by filling out a very short survey here:

Regards,

National Childrenâ€™s and Youth Law Centre

Hon1nbo

Tue Jun 01 2010, 05:13PM

Registered Member #902 Joined: Sun Jul 15 2007, 08:17PM
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1040

looks like it is a gray area in your country, it would be best to talk to the agency with jurisdiction to clarify things - I've made calls like that to the ATF (regarding Thermite in my case) and they tend to know what to tell you. I don't know how things work in Australia, but it is a matter worth investigating further if you want to build a coilgun. One thing to note is the usage of the terms like "pistol grip" - if you want to make a coilgun, there is a god chance that they might consider it a weapon if you can hold it.
To start out, I would advise you don't build one that is bearable. Go with a table top unit or the like.

but again, be careful

-Jimmy

Jack A

Sat Jul 10 2010, 12:34AM

Registered Member #2975 Joined: Wed Jul 07 2010, 12:19AM
Location:
Posts: 28

Im from adelaide and as far as wikipedias concerned, in SA as long as i keep it under 180f/s (~55m/s) its not a firearm. Thats legal enough for me!

One of the main problems for coil gunners in Australia is that all our laws are designed to keep working into the future, e.g. new drugs are already illegal because they're similar to existing ones. So a projectile launcher is already a firearm!

I talked to this ex lawyer who was being a student teacher in one of my classes and she reckoned it was pretty legal.

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