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4hv.org :: Forums :: High Voltage
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why does the negative electrode get so hot?

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haxor5354
Sun May 10 2009, 11:19PM Print
haxor5354 Registered Member #2063 Joined: Sat Apr 04 2009, 03:16PM
Location: Toronto
Posts: 352
I built a ZVS flyback driver with a pair of IRFP250s recently, I had a lot of fun playing it. The first time I tested it with alligator clips as electrodes, it turned very bright and sparks falls from the negative clip. then I tried it with a paper clip, it melted fast and lots of sparks fly off from it. Then I used a soldering stand to hold a penny and use the positive electrode to arc it, it soon turned black and melted, but no liquid metal though. the penny looked like a piece of crap after it cooled =D
1241997592 2063 FT0  008

1241997592 2063 FT0  009

1241997592 2063 FT0  013

1241997592 2063 FT0  011
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Myke
Mon May 11 2009, 12:55AM
Myke Registered Member #540 Joined: Mon Feb 19 2007, 07:49PM
Location: MIT
Posts: 969
From what I remember, the negative electrode gets so hot because of all the ions bombarding it. In neon lamps and other gaseous discharge displays, the negative electrode is always the one that heats the most and is the brightest.
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haxor5354
Mon May 11 2009, 02:04AM
haxor5354 Registered Member #2063 Joined: Sat Apr 04 2009, 03:16PM
Location: Toronto
Posts: 352
what happened to all the electrons released from the negative electrode? wouldn't that bombard the positive electrode?
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Myke
Mon May 11 2009, 04:00AM
Myke Registered Member #540 Joined: Mon Feb 19 2007, 07:49PM
Location: MIT
Posts: 969
Yes, they do hit the positive electrode. Because the mass of the ions are a lot higher than the electrons, there is more heating on the negative one compared to the positive one. The positive one still does heat up because it's close to the plasma and also electrons are hitting it.
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haxor5354
Mon May 11 2009, 04:14AM
haxor5354 Registered Member #2063 Joined: Sat Apr 04 2009, 03:16PM
Location: Toronto
Posts: 352
is it safe to melt salt? i heard that it produce poisonous chlorine gasses
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3l3ctrici7y
Mon May 11 2009, 07:05AM
3l3ctrici7y Registered Member #1806 Joined: Sun Nov 09 2008, 04:58AM
Location: USA
Posts: 136
Sure it's safe. Salt will no more release Cl when melted than water will release H or O when melted.

To get Cl gas, you would have to electrolyze the molten salt. This can be done with water, and you will get H and O bubbles forming on the electrodes.

Molten salt is one process used in the heat treating of steel and perhaps other metals.
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Bjørn
Mon May 11 2009, 07:55AM
Bjørn Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058
If you heat water enough it will break the molecular bonds and release hydrogen and oxygen. Most of it will recombine back to water again but some will escape. There are hydrogen generators that use concentrated sunlight to make useful amounts of hydrogen.

Many materials will release unpleasant things when heated to a high temperature so if you are melting or evaporating something you should make sure to not breathe in the fumes unless you are sure it is safe.
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Dr. Dark Current
Mon May 11 2009, 10:26AM
Dr. Dark Current Registered Member #152 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 03:36PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 3384
I thought the positive electrode actually gets hotter, because of the electrons flying off the negative electrode and hitting the positive one.

But in the case of an arc in a gas, there are also other ions than electrons which carry the current, and they may be positively charged bombarding the negative electrode.

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haxor5354
Mon May 11 2009, 11:06AM
haxor5354 Registered Member #2063 Joined: Sat Apr 04 2009, 03:16PM
Location: Toronto
Posts: 352
the thick red wire sticking out on top of the flyback is the positive and 1 lead at the bottom is the negative right?
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Dr. Dark Current
Mon May 11 2009, 11:25AM
Dr. Dark Current Registered Member #152 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 03:36PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 3384
haxor5354 wrote ...

the thick red wire sticking out on top of the flyback is the positive and 1 lead at the bottom is the negative right?
yes
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