Welcome
Username or Email:

Password:


Missing Code




[ ]
[ ]
Online
  • Guests: 40
  • Members: 0
  • Newest Member: omjtest
  • Most ever online: 396
    Guests: 396, Members: 0 on 12 Jan : 12:51
Members Birthdays:
One birthday today, congrats!
wpk5008 (35)


Next birthdays
05/08 wpk5008 (35)
05/09 Alfons (37)
05/09 Coronafix (52)
Contact
If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.


Special Thanks To:
  • Aaron Holmes
  • Aaron Wheeler
  • Adam Horden
  • Alan Scrimgeour
  • Andre
  • Andrew Haynes
  • Anonymous000
  • asabase
  • Austin Weil
  • barney
  • Barry
  • Bert Hickman
  • Bill Kukowski
  • Blitzorn
  • Brandon Paradelas
  • Bruce Bowling
  • BubeeMike
  • Byong Park
  • Cesiumsponge
  • Chris F.
  • Chris Hooper
  • Corey Worthington
  • Derek Woodroffe
  • Dalus
  • Dan Strother
  • Daniel Davis
  • Daniel Uhrenholt
  • datasheetarchive
  • Dave Billington
  • Dave Marshall
  • David F.
  • Dennis Rogers
  • drelectrix
  • Dr. John Gudenas
  • Dr. Spark
  • E.TexasTesla
  • eastvoltresearch
  • Eirik Taylor
  • Erik Dyakov
  • Erlend^SE
  • Finn Hammer
  • Firebug24k
  • GalliumMan
  • Gary Peterson
  • George Slade
  • GhostNull
  • Gordon Mcknight
  • Graham Armitage
  • Grant
  • GreySoul
  • Henry H
  • IamSmooth
  • In memory of Leo Powning
  • Jacob Cash
  • James Howells
  • James Pawson
  • Jeff Greenfield
  • Jeff Thomas
  • Jesse Frost
  • Jim Mitchell
  • jlr134
  • Joe Mastroianni
  • John Forcina
  • John Oberg
  • John Willcutt
  • Jon Newcomb
  • klugesmith
  • Leslie Wright
  • Lutz Hoffman
  • Mads Barnkob
  • Martin King
  • Mats Karlsson
  • Matt Gibson
  • Matthew Guidry
  • mbd
  • Michael D'Angelo
  • Mikkel
  • mileswaldron
  • mister_rf
  • Neil Foster
  • Nick de Smith
  • Nick Soroka
  • nicklenorp
  • Nik
  • Norman Stanley
  • Patrick Coleman
  • Paul Brodie
  • Paul Jordan
  • Paul Montgomery
  • Ped
  • Peter Krogen
  • Peter Terren
  • PhilGood
  • Richard Feldman
  • Robert Bush
  • Royce Bailey
  • Scott Fusare
  • Scott Newman
  • smiffy
  • Stella
  • Steven Busic
  • Steve Conner
  • Steve Jones
  • Steve Ward
  • Sulaiman
  • Thomas Coyle
  • Thomas A. Wallace
  • Thomas W
  • Timo
  • Torch
  • Ulf Jonsson
  • vasil
  • Vaxian
  • vladi mazzilli
  • wastehl
  • Weston
  • William Kim
  • William N.
  • William Stehl
  • Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
« Previous topic | Next topic »   

Thermodynamics question . . .

Move Thread LAN_403
HV Enthusiast
Sat Jul 19 2008, 08:54PM Print
HV Enthusiast Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068
With my wife being away in Europe for 6 weeks with the kids, one night while looking into an almost empty fridge, i began pondering a thermal question.

Assuming the items in the refrigerator are already had the steady state temperature (neglecting energy required to initially cool them), and that thermal leakage is constant (inside to outside) . . .

Does it take more energy to maintain the contents of the refrigerator at the cooling temperature if its completely full vs. almost empty???

Back to top
aonomus
Sat Jul 19 2008, 10:45PM
aonomus Registered Member #1497 Joined: Thu May 22 2008, 05:24AM
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 801
I would think if the fridge has a large mass of water-containing food at low temperature, the overall environment inside would be harder to warm up since opening the fridge full means less warm air enters, and therefore less heat.
Back to top
Steve Conner
Sun Jul 20 2008, 08:22PM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
The simple answer: The same amount of energy, since the thermal path between fridge and ambient is the only way for heat to flow, and isn't affected by the objects inside it.

(The First Law says that if the objects are at their steady-state temperature, no heat will flow into or out of them, although it might flow through them as it leaks through the fridge walls.)

The complicated answer: The objects inside will block convection currents and insulate the walls, making the thermal leakage less than if the fridge were empty. But this isn't relevant since you specified the leakage to be constant.
Back to top
cbfull
Mon Jul 21 2008, 12:10PM
cbfull Registered Member #187 Joined: Thu Feb 16 2006, 02:54PM
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 140
I've been studying refrigeration systems for a little over a year now because it's just so cool (okay, you can take or leave the pun).

What everyone has told you so far is correct. Having many thermal masses in the refrigerator provides a large buffer for temperature changes. Also, as Dr. Conner pointed out, they also serve as baffles which stabilize the cold air currents when the door is opened, so the result is less heat flow into the contents.

Curious, are you really asking about the overall power consumption of the compressor in a real system, or just the heat flow in general as defined by thermodynamics?
Back to top
HV Enthusiast
Mon Jul 21 2008, 01:57PM
HV Enthusiast Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068
Just asking in general. . .
but thanks, you cleared up my question.
Back to top

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob

Go to:

Powered by e107 Forum System
 
Legal Information
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.