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DrZoidberg

Fri Mar 14 2008, 05:41PM

Registered Member #350 Joined: Mon Mar 27 2006, 05:14PM
Location:
Posts: 106

Hi,
Do you know what the output of a taser looks like? Current, voltage, waveform, etc.?

Dr. Dark Current

Fri Mar 14 2008, 06:42PM

Registered Member #152 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 03:36PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 3384

I would guess the voltage in the 20-30kV range,
current- I have no idea, but the spark is generated by a pulse transformer, where a capacitor is discharged into its primary winding; I would guess the cap around a joule of energy (at most).

Backyard Skunkworks

Fri Mar 14 2008, 07:15PM

Registered Member #1262 Joined: Fri Jan 25 2008, 05:22AM
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 451

Taser's own website has a lot of info on how they work.

It starts out with a pulse around 50kV and then drops off to around 1,200V, then switchs off. This cycle repeats at 19hz.

DrZoidberg

Sat Mar 15 2008, 07:24AM

Registered Member #350 Joined: Mon Mar 27 2006, 05:14PM
Location:
Posts: 106

Thanks,
I searched the site and found some details about the wavrforms

How did they produce the waveform of the X26?
Did they discharge 2 capacitors through the pulse transformer?
Maybe there are 2 primary coils and the second discharge uses a much smaller winding ratio then the first.
But if it are 2 discharges then the first one produces a strong oscillation but the second one does not. I wonder why.

quicksilver

Tue Mar 25 2008, 08:46PM

Registered Member #1408 Joined: Fri Mar 21 2008, 03:49PM
Location: Oracle, AZ
Posts: 679

I had an opportunity to not only have a working sample of a Taser but quite frankly about a half dozen differing electro-shock weapons used in a correctional setting as evaluation items. I have yet to crack the Tasers open as i believe them to be quite valuable, but I have opened several others hand held shock weapons and batons. Some of extremely high quality. If I can take them apart and put them back without breaking any seals or similar; I am going to.
I did see the inside of a very well made item from South Africa. It was an extremely well made baton that would survive being slammed against a telephone pole repeatedly.

In side the shock mechanism was coated with hot-melt glue. Perhaps this was to insure it's strength and resistance to impact. Perhaps it was to impede reverse engineering efforts; I'm not sure. What I DID SEE was hand made coils at it's terminus (the contact end). From the visual observation of the spark, I was sure I was going to see a large cap. but I was quite wrong.

I open another (a hand held) made by a firm in Australia called Superior Safety Products and recognized a zener diode; a BIG one and a very well made heat sink. these items are all top grade. I have seen cheap "stun-guns" made in Korea, etc. Those also appeared to attempt to hide their design. However most were simple, with circuity almost similar to a photo-flash cap discharge device.

kerver

Wed Mar 26 2008, 07:49AM

Registered Member #522 Joined: Thu Feb 15 2007, 01:04AM
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 33

Very interesting stuff.

Im learnig about this weapons for about 2 years now mostly from the internet.
There is not much high-tech information to find
Only at some patents site's i found a litle bit, but it is always very hard to find good information about the good en expensive devices.

Ciruits of those expensive devices never found

Same thing for the waveforms. not anyting good or clear en complite information.
Almost nothing, But the last year there is more coming from the sovjet site's.

Greetings from the lowlands (the netherlands)

Steve Conner

Wed Mar 26 2008, 02:23PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

I'm sure the Taser just has a single pulse transformer. The 50kV is just the open-circuit voltage and the lower voltages quoted are because it drops under load.

The complicated waveform of the X26 might be caused by driving the transformer with a pulse forming network instead of a single capacitor. The ringing at the leading edge could be caused by a mismatch, maybe deliberate, or could just be the result of using only a few elements in the PFN.

quicksilver

Wed Mar 26 2008, 10:22PM

Registered Member #1408 Joined: Fri Mar 21 2008, 03:49PM
Location: Oracle, AZ
Posts: 679

Just as an aside, I have a friend which had been an EE before he retired and has a quality 'scope. He claims that the wave form and other issues have changed from several Taser models through the years he had access to. I loaned him one of mine and he re-iterated those findings.

What's more he believes that the Taser has actually gotten less powerful over the course of time due to liability issues. Conceptually, it's his opinion that the Taser effect could be achieved by many HV low-current designs as the effect is really to be found in the dart placement - covering a large area of the human muscular system would be the key.

The history of electro-weapons is very interesting as it had existed for many decades and through out the world. Some designs were simply meant to cause pain and have been abused by governmental agencies. Others were actually meant to achieve a defensive dynamic and those had much more research involved.

There is still a very large governmental interest in such devices but getting beyond the "road block" of non-lethality vs. assured incapacitation has been the long term challenge. He did mention that for a time he even had a back-burner hobby / project of designing such a device as the market never ceases for non-lethal defense items.

Backyard Skunkworks

Thu Mar 27 2008, 03:32AM

Registered Member #1262 Joined: Fri Jan 25 2008, 05:22AM
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 451

In theory I think they could switch to radio frequency for EM weapons to eliminate the pain, right?

I remember reading somewhere that you cant feel AC past like 10khz yet it still paralyzes.

kerver

Thu Mar 27 2008, 09:16AM

Registered Member #522 Joined: Thu Feb 15 2007, 01:04AM
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 33

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