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Registered Member #1208
Joined: Thu Jan 03 2008, 05:30PM
Location: Chesterland, OH
Posts: 154
well i know this should technically be in the chemistry board, but the final product would apply more to coilguns. Most of you know what thermite does,for those of you who don't, it takes a metal oxide and reduces it with aluminum. well there is a very cheap source of silicon dioxide: sand. Unfortunately, the silicon dioxide thermite reaction is not self sustaining to the best of my knowledge, but that's okay, because we don't want pure silicon, we want steel doped with it.
silicon thermite: 3 SiO2 + 4 Al ==> 3 Si + 2 Al2O3 by mass: 10:9 Si02:Al
and normal thermite: Fe2O3 + 2 Al ==> 2 Fe + Al2O3 3:1 Fe2O3: Al
one could make, for example, 100g normal thermite and 5g of "silicon thermite" and would have, in theory, ~3% silicon in that steel.
one could pour that into a somewhat cylindrical mold, made of some heat resistant material (graphite comes to mind), and then turn it on a lathe.
let me know what you think, and mods feel free to move this if you think it should be in chemistry.
I believe that the final ratios for ~3% silicon are 135/9/53 Fe2O3/SiO2/Al
Registered Member #14
Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:04PM
Location: Prato/italy
Posts: 383
Interesting, but it is not only the composition that determines the magnetic properties but also cristalline state, type of bond, that depend on conditions (temp etc). Anyway I will search for some information about silicon steels, maybe some bibliography can be useful.
I cannot find the value of magnetic saturation field, (2.0T for normal steel)
Registered Member #1208
Joined: Thu Jan 03 2008, 05:30PM
Location: Chesterland, OH
Posts: 154
well most of that was speculation, which is part of why i posted it here as an "idea" and not a "great new cheap way that works 100%" according to wikipedia on the crystalline structure:
"Amorphous steel
For certain transformers, cores made of amorphous steel are used. This material is a metallic glass prepared by pouring molten alloy steel on a rotating cooled wheel, which cools the metal so quickly (a rate of about one million degrees per second) that crystals do not form. The resulting amorphous metal transformers may have losses due to the core material only one-third that of conventional steels. However, its high cost (about twice that of conventional steel) and lower mechanical properties make use of amorphous steel economical only for certain distribution-type transformers."
one could probally replicate this by setting off the thermite and letting it drip into a water bath, while somehow making it remain in one piece...
the above being said, i take no responsibility for anyone doing that. as you may have guessed, 2500C liquid steel+ water that boils at 100C= steam explosion! I hope that isn't against the rules.
I couldn't find the saturation, but it must be above 2.0 T or it wouldn't have any application.
p.s. I didn't know a bibliography was necessary on the forums. sorry!
Registered Member #14
Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:04PM
Location: Prato/italy
Posts: 383
ramses wrote ...
I couldn't find the saturation, but it must be above 2.0 T or it wouldn't have any application.
It isn't correct, a bigger core at a given frequency will simply avoid saturation, for example ferrite saturates very low, but working at high frequency this is not a problem and cores are very small.
ramses wrote ...
p.s. I didn't know a bibliography was necessary on the forums. sorry!
In fact it isn't necessary, it was just a curiosity
Registered Member #690
Joined: Tue May 08 2007, 03:47AM
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 616
I think ramses means that the saturation flux density of silicon steel must be above that of regular steel/iron (2.0T), because otherwise we would just use regular steel/iron.
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homemade silicon steel idea
