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Does time Exist or Not exist?/A Thought Experiment

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LAN_403

Overclocked

Sat Nov 10 2007, 12:08AM

Registered Member #1056 Joined: Thu Oct 11 2007, 11:15PM
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 27

Ive been wondering, Does time Exist?

I know it sounds stupid, but, Does it really exist? If think about what Time actually is, wasnt time created by Humans? So does that mean it exists or is time just an idea or just a easy way to keep track of things that have happened in the past?

Is Space 3 Dimensional or is it just 2 plains?, If so, how does the plain of gravity fit in with space? I think it seems impossible for a there to be a 4th dimension in a 3d world. For example, If we were to put a bowling ball on a bed, it would create an indent and make other objects come towards it. This plane, is gravity, but what Im saying is, How can this plain exist if there are objects below us?

Then that could possible mean, gravity is a independent plain on which each object has its one field. There is no "one soccer field" per say. this means Each and every object has its own "soccer field" independent of other bodies around it, Unless they interact in some way.

Bjørn

Sat Nov 10 2007, 01:13AM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

In some sense time does exist. That is how we know that you asked the question before someone answered it. The true nature of time is unknown and seems to be deeply connected within particle physics and the fabric of the universe.

Time can be viewed from many perspectives and different frameworks usually have their own practical definition. Quantum mechanics, relativity and thermodynamics have different and often conflicting views of time but within each framework there are some relatively simple and helpful definitions.

Different people also have different views, Hawking has been promoting imaginary time that "flows" at 90 degrees to the time we observe.

That something is difficult to imagine or even is impossible to imagine is often a problem with our brains, not a clear sign that an idea is wrong. Our brains are wired to imagine two or three dimensions and with a very restricted set of configurations. You can easily judge if you can climb something or throw something, but when it comes to judging what happens inside an atom you are almost completely blind and helpless. This is why mathematics is very important in these questions.

The usual way if viewing space at large scales is as a 4D spacetime (3 spatial dimension plus time) where gravity is not a separate dimension so the stretched plane is just a way to visualise how gravity stretches the dimensions that exist. If you think about it, it is just a shallow analogy and it is completely flawed on a deeper level. It works by having the earth under your model to pull on your ball by gravity to stretch the plane. It is possible to imagine more suitable models that are much closer to reality by avoiding the confusion of using gravity as a part of a model of gravity.

When it comes to the number of dimensions it is still an open question. Everything from 2 to 26 dimensions seems to be actively considered.

There are thousands of books written about these questions and there are no simple answers on a general level, only within restricted frameworks.

Carbon_Rod

Sat Nov 10 2007, 06:28AM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

BjÃ¸rn covered the popular theories very well,

As for 4D concepts you may wish to have a peek at the Tesseract:

I found the fictional book "Einstein's Dreams" amusing as it abstracts many current theories of time into reiterating short stories:

Hawking has made many contributions, but some of his more speculative work is given far too much credence.

Steve Conner

Sat Nov 10 2007, 01:00PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Define "Exist".

Ken M.

Sat Nov 10 2007, 01:36PM

Registered Member #618 Joined: Sat Mar 31 2007, 04:15AM
Location: Us-Great Lakes
Posts: 628

Time is just something man made, to set limits. As most people say "people are afraid of the unknown", a line, a ray, a plane (the geometeric one, not the flying one) all extend forever they are infinite but since man doesn't know where or what infinite is, so they place borders and limits to make things known and measurable! Sorry for my babling on, but thats just my opinion.

Marko

Sat Nov 10 2007, 02:02PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

Define "Exist".

I don't believe anything exists - I can't be fully sure that even I exist after all.

Time is just something man made, to set limits.

Planck time isn't actually man made - everything that happens happens with a basic clock of Planck times on a grid of Planck lengths. Smaller than these is nonsensical, and as I think all derived units need to be integers of these.

Dr. Dark Current

Sat Nov 10 2007, 02:55PM

Registered Member #152 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 03:36PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 3384

I believe that Time is a matter of sensual perception- it is "created" in our brains. For example drugs can alter the perception of time greatly, a person can even experience a feeling of being "outside of time" - feeling that time does not exist.

Bjørn

Sat Nov 10 2007, 07:37PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

Time is just something man made,

Many concepts that people associate with time is man made but sequencing of events on a large scale has always existed as long as large scales has existed. Highly red shifted stars still go supernova after other events have happened just like modern stars does. So some sense of time has always existed, your brain would not work otherwise and particles would not know what direction to move in.

Your argument really is that some distorted personal view of time is man made and that is true, but that has no significance to whatever is the real arrow of time.

I believe that Time is a matter of sensual perception-

This is a very similar argument, you can distort your own perception of time but a time sensitive experiment that is placed in a box with a drugged person will be in 100% agreement with another experiment isolated from this box.

It still does not give us any insight about the true nature of time, just that time goes steadily along no matter what people think about it.

Overclocked

Sun Nov 11 2007, 12:17AM

Registered Member #1056 Joined: Thu Oct 11 2007, 11:15PM
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 27

WhiteArc wrote ...

Time is just something man made, to set limits. As most people say "people are afraid of the unknown", a line, a ray, a plane (the geometeric one, not the flying one) all extend forever they are infinite but since man doesn't know where or what infinite is, so they place borders and limits to make things known and measurable! Sorry for my babling on, but thats just my opinion.

Thats something else Ive thought apon. Is there a such thing as infinity? We say space is infinite in size, Yet, It has to have bounds (or alteast curve, I mean Space isnt flat like the earth is [sarcasim]). It just cant go on for ever and ever... When we talk about large things, or even Quadratic Equations (ax^2+bx+c), we say they go on for infinite, But in real life, Doesnt it have to stop some where?

Bjørn

Sun Nov 11 2007, 01:32AM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

In mathematics the notion of infinity is very strong and is an important part. The link between mathematics an reality gets very strained when we get past simple counting. There are various reasons to believe (but no proof) that there is not an infinite number of atoms in the universe and that no normal measurable quantity is infinite anywhere in the universe.

Imagine if there was a photon of infinite energy at each end of our galaxy. They would move towards each other with infinite accelleration and rip the whole universe apart as fast as the speed of light would allow it.

The size of the universe may be finite without any boundaries, only curvature. It is still an open question.

Almost all mathematical infinities seems to be impossible in reality. Black holes are thought to contain singularities with infinite curvature where space and time does not exist in a normal sense.

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