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Registered Member #1025
Joined: Sun Sept 23 2007, 07:53PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 566
Hi guys, I have one speculation I’d like to share with you. I know that BL is mainly explained as kind of vaporized burning (Si?) particles after the lightning hit. However, I do not like this explanation too much. Here I have another idea:
Imagine a state between positive and negative HV electrodes when the ionization path is already initiated. Than the sparks starts and the mass of electrons leaves the minus electrode but in that very moment the positive electrode disappears (like is discharged or some hypothetical dielectric covers it). What happens with all the electrons which lost their target and already left the negative electrode?
Can’t this be the origin of BL?
Mod merged double post
Here is a scheme of BL generator which could work in case my idea is right. Powered by CW (or VDG) could with some small probability produce some small BL. Fast camera with good filters would have to be part of the setting…
Registered Member #89
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145
What happens with all the electrons which lost their target and already left the negative electrode?
Electrons will be stopped in their place due to resistance and recombine, and path would cool down instantly. So nothing special happens.
There is no concrete observational evidence describing what BL actually is. You can't explain something for what you don't know what it is or even if does it exist.
Registered Member #1025
Joined: Sun Sept 23 2007, 07:53PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 566
Marko wrote ...
What happens with all the electrons which lost their target and already left the negative electrode?
Electrons will be stopped in their place due to resistance and recombine, and path would cool down instantly. So nothing special happens.
Bulk of energy transformed into nothing ? That's againts the basic physical laws!
Mod merged double post
jmartis wrote ...
Mates wrote ...
What happens with all the electrons which lost their target and already left the negative electrode?
Think of a Tesla coil. The electrons leave the topload but they don't hit any other electrode, where do they go? They don't create a BL for sure.
The sparks finds the ground - you just do not see them... The neone light gives always the light in much further distance than the sparks goes...The tesla coil sparks are like a river. You do not see the tiny creeks making the the Nile...
Registered Member #89
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145
Mates: please don't double post, it's against the rules and will make mods unhappy.
Bulk of energy transformed into nothing ? That's againts the basic physical laws!
No, it's transformed into heat and absorbed by surrounding air. Quicker before you can observe anything interesting. The energy is in most of our cases not really dense and air cools the plasma down very quickly. If you happen to pump enough energy in small volume of airyou may see small clouds of plasma lasting for several hundreds of milliseconds before they dissipate, and that's it.
The sparks finds the ground - you just do not see them... The neone light gives always the light in much further distance than the sparks goes...The tesla coil sparks are like a river. You do not see the tiny creeks making the the Nile...
Neon lamps are lit by displacement current flowing through capacitance between lamp and the coil.
Nice explanation, and although they do provoke streamers, displacement currents aren't 'arcs' anymore.
And I don't see what does this have with the topic which dealt with DC.
Registered Member #1025
Joined: Sun Sept 23 2007, 07:53PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 566
[quote] Mates: please don't double post, it's against the rules and will make mods unhappy.
Bulk of energy transformed into nothing ? That's againts the basic physical laws!
No, it's transformed into heat and absorbed by surrounding air. Quicker before you can observe anything interesting. The energy is in most of our cases not really dense and air cools the plasma down very quickly. If you happen to pump enough energy in small volume of airyou may see small clouds of plasma lasting for several hundreds of milliseconds before they dissipate, and that's it.
[blockquote]
Hi Marco, sorry my stupidity with the double thread posting but I'm not able to add the new pictures by editing the original thread (maybe an old browser?)
According to your arguments - of course the BL must be question of very high energy pulses - hard to reproduce in the lab - but anyway what you say:"small clouds of plasma lasting for several hundreds of milliseconds before they dissipate" can be the point!
Registered Member #1025
Joined: Sun Sept 23 2007, 07:53PM
Location: Czech Rep.
Posts: 566
Simon wrote ...
I've fixed the double posts. Two double posts in one thread in one day deserves a medal...
If you have questions about how to do something without double posting, ask on the mod contact board.
Ok Simon, do not beat about the bush and tell me how to send the images into the already established thread. When I goes to the edit, there is no file to attach possibility...Also the contact to the moderator support -I do not see it anywhere - are you guys using internet explorer or am I blind? I'm sorry I do not mean it in a rute way...I don't want to make any mass in your system... Probably need some better explanation :)
I also red the posts you suggested - Ok, I have to agree with all the argumets there (I also do science for living,but it is molecular biology - all this HV stuff is just a hobby), but take my post just as an idea and proposal for testing it... That's what the science is about...
Registered Member #96
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061
Hmm. Well the main problem here is you need to define what BL is before you can go any further. About the closest phenomenon I have heard of that is scientifically verified is "Cook's Plasma" which briefly appears at the back of some high explosive detonations.
This can under certain conditions duplicate some (though not all) of the properties associated with the few observations of BL which are "ordinary" (i.e. do not blatantly violate the laws of physics) such as the free-floating kind which emerges from areas close to a lightning strike.
From this it may be possible to form a hypothesis that both magnetic and electrical fields are involved as well as some sort of fine particle suspension.
Registered Member #56
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
If you use a modern browser, firebox 2, ie7, etc, you can click the 'add another atachment' button, if for whatever reason you are not using an updated browser you can upload an attachemnt, click 'preview, upload another, click preview, etc. Or you can use the 'attachments' forum which has intructions posted in it. But I don't think this will help to much, since you have only posted one image in the entire thread. If you do need help there is another forum devoted soley to aksing the mods for help.
In any case, I do not really think that your aparatus will do much anything usefull. But if it helps, it has been observed (and photographed that there can be plasma lasting after a high power ark has extingushed for a few ms.
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Possible luminous plasmoid generator?
