If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.
Special Thanks To:
Aaron Holmes
Aaron Wheeler
Adam Horden
Alan Scrimgeour
Andre
Andrew Haynes
Anonymous000
asabase
Austin Weil
barney
Barry
Bert Hickman
Bill Kukowski
Blitzorn
Brandon Paradelas
Bruce Bowling
BubeeMike
Byong Park
Cesiumsponge
Chris F.
Chris Hooper
Corey Worthington
Derek Woodroffe
Dalus
Dan Strother
Daniel Davis
Daniel Uhrenholt
datasheetarchive
Dave Billington
Dave Marshall
David F.
Dennis Rogers
drelectrix
Dr. John Gudenas
Dr. Spark
E.TexasTesla
eastvoltresearch
Eirik Taylor
Erik Dyakov
Erlend^SE
Finn Hammer
Firebug24k
GalliumMan
Gary Peterson
George Slade
GhostNull
Gordon Mcknight
Graham Armitage
Grant
GreySoul
Henry H
IamSmooth
In memory of Leo Powning
Jacob Cash
James Howells
James Pawson
Jeff Greenfield
Jeff Thomas
Jesse Frost
Jim Mitchell
jlr134
Joe Mastroianni
John Forcina
John Oberg
John Willcutt
Jon Newcomb
klugesmith
Leslie Wright
Lutz Hoffman
Mads Barnkob
Martin King
Mats Karlsson
Matt Gibson
Matthew Guidry
mbd
Michael D'Angelo
Mikkel
mileswaldron
mister_rf
Neil Foster
Nick de Smith
Nick Soroka
nicklenorp
Nik
Norman Stanley
Patrick Coleman
Paul Brodie
Paul Jordan
Paul Montgomery
Ped
Peter Krogen
Peter Terren
PhilGood
Richard Feldman
Robert Bush
Royce Bailey
Scott Fusare
Scott Newman
smiffy
Stella
Steven Busic
Steve Conner
Steve Jones
Steve Ward
Sulaiman
Thomas Coyle
Thomas A. Wallace
Thomas W
Timo
Torch
Ulf Jonsson
vasil
Vaxian
vladi mazzilli
wastehl
Weston
William Kim
William N.
William Stehl
Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Registered Member #54278
Joined: Sat Jan 17 2015, 04:42AM
Location: Amite, La.
Posts: 367
A DETAIL CONCERNING SAFETY WHEN USING LARGE ENERGY/PULSE CAPACITORS (AND OTHERS):
I have had a lifetime of experience with these beasts and I am SAFE around them, using every precaution I know. I will never forget one close call I had with not only a capacitor that I 'thought' was discharged, but it read zero voltage across its terminals! This is an example of only one type of situation that really worries me: as rare as they are, they can pop up and kill--even if the operator does everything correctly!! So, I must share with you to make you aware of one such situation in particular that, only by luck only, I survived.
I was working with a bank of -relatively- small pulse capacitors (50uF @ 5kV each). I had discharged the bank and separated each cap. To store them, I touched the terminals with a heavy discharging rod, then wrapped a thin shorting wire across the terminals for storage. Now, when the time came to work with these again, I removed the shorting wires. I was connecting a bank of ten in parallel, while doing this, I keep the 'first one in line' shorted--most would call this safety overkill. (since I work with the huge caps so I guess the beasts just scare me). I grabbed one, removed the shorting wire and proceeded to push on a copper shorting bar--since this was the first cap in line. As I pressed it on there was a huge bang and the copper bar flew off! I just figured somehow it didn't get discharged, so I measured the voltage at the terminals and it read zero--I figured the bang discharged it. As I again started to press the bar across the terminals--BANG--again. This time the copper shorting bar --remained-- across the terminals. I could see it was touching both terminals, but now I wasn't taking any chances--I measured the terminals and got zero volts. To verify that the voltmeter was working, I measured voltage on another component and it worked fine. I safely removed the bar from this capacitor, re-measured the voltage and continued to get 0 volt readings. I wrapped the shorting wire around the terminals (a new wire which was made of shiny copper and tested properly for continuity) and stored it.
The next day, still spooked by this capacitor, I checked the terminal voltage with the shorting wire in place, got zero v, so I measured the continuity of the shorted terminals--got a short circuit reading. I thought what could be wrong now? Again after removing the shorting wire and while pushing the copper bar across the terminals, a --violent-- short occurred! NONE of the other capacitors acted abnormally like this one. I eventually determined that this capacitor was at least partially shorting when pressure was applied to the terminal(s)--this usually indicated a bad or 'loose' connection. This was indeed the case. This capacitor had been used in a several high current pulse discharges, and I concluded that this violent discharging must have resulted in a internal 'hairline' break that was being 'reconnected' by simply applying a downward force to the terminals. Everything fit this scenario. By now the capacitor was actually fully discharged. I could NOT recharge it by touching the terminals with the charger poles--I actually had to apply a downward force (connecting that internal break) on the terminals to charge (or discharge) it. I later determined that it was the 'negative' lead that was defective
Even though rare, I will NEVER assume this defect is not present, especially when dealing with huge energy storage capacitors. I learned (for educational purposes) how to charge and discharge this defective capacitor--and with no significant downward pressure applied to the defective terminal, the capacitor would read zero voltage whether actually charged to 5000V or zero V. It consistently read zero capacitance (microfarads) on the meter.
So how do you ensure against this? Well, after some thought, I came up with a very simple procedure: After discharging and verifying zero voltage across the capacitor, THEN test it for the proper capacitance with a capacitance meter! Touch the terminals very lightly for both the voltage and capacitance readings. That's it--CHECK FOR CAPACITANCE!
Now, before shrinking a coin, I always do a CAPACITANCE reading, after removing the shorting conductor, on the capacitor(s) I am about to use.
Registered Member #11591
Joined: Wed Mar 20 2013, 08:20PM
Location: UK
Posts: 556
Thanks for sharing! I have two of those 50uf 5kv pulse caps in my coin shrinker/can crusher. (thank you Dr Slack!) lesson learnt. Another tip: no capacitor will ever be fully discharged. You will always get some voltage left even after a dead short.
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.