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cosmological inflation

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IamSmooth

Sun Jan 19 2014, 07:32PM

Registered Member #190 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 12:00AM
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According to the inflation theory there is a horizon where space is receeding so fast from an observer such that light will never reach the observer. First, I thought that matter could go equal to or faster than light. This being so, if A is receeding at 0.999...c and B is receeding at the same, wouldn't the additive speed still be less than light speed, and light would reach the observer? What am I missing here? Is it that the light is so red-shifted that there is no discernable information?

Andy

Sun Jan 19 2014, 07:42PM

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If the measurements tools that we use are protons and electrons, matter if it goes faster will be undetectable to those things, based on the speed from earth, at light years away, the matter could be moving at say half the speed of light, but that is at that area, in that gravity, from our point, and whats in between the electrons and protons could speed up(neutrinos will speed up electrons and protons), that if it travels 1m/sec fast than light and vanishes.
If radio waves from the sun are speed up from another starsystem so that they are visible as light here that is what we will measure, not at that point in space, radio waves below.
If it takes 1kg of electrons that are orbiting a point and 1 rev sec at 1 meter, will slow down protons by 1m/sec, if neutrinos are 7.8E-32kg, you will probable be looking at 10-100 of light years per 1m/sec speed increase

That the way I understand it.

BigBad

Mon Jan 20 2014, 04:41AM

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In relativity no material thing can go faster than light, but there's nothing stopping space expanding arbitrarily fast.

If space is expanding uniformly there's some distance away where the space is moving away at faster than light, beyond that point light can only lose the race and will never reach you.

For example if space expands at 1mm/s per m of distance, then at a distance of 3e8/0.001 = 3e11 m then the light is always moving backwards. Each second there's more new space being created in between than the light can traverse.

Ash Small

Mon Jan 20 2014, 05:10AM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
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BigBad wrote ...

In relativity no material thing can go faster than light, but there's nothing stopping space expanding arbitrarily fast.

If space is expanding uniformly there's some distance away where the space is moving away at faster than light, beyond that point light can only lose the race and will never reach you.

For example if space expands at 1mm/s per m of distance, then at a distance of 3e8/0.001 = 3e11 m then the light is always moving backwards. Each second there's more new space being created in between than the light can traverse.

It has been suggested to me recently that this explanation could explain 'dark matter', ie that the 'extra matter' required could just be so far away, and travelling so fast, (relative to the observer, due to the expansion of space) that we can't see or detect it, and that the universe is actually far bigger than we think. It was also suggested that this could also explain why 'we' appear to be at approximately the centre of the universe. (we can only see so far in any given direction)

Does this appear to be a 'credible explanation'?

Shrad

Mon Jan 20 2014, 08:37AM

Registered Member #3215 Joined: Sun Sept 19 2010, 08:42PM
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relativity is not a definitive model, only an approximation best describing some elements at the time they have been taken into analysis

while it is valid for some aspects of what we know, it has its limits for which other theories have been developed

while these theories resolve some points and include some solutions, there are points they do not validate which other theories will

all comes to the point that we still need to feed our brains, and especially encourage children to be interested in science as we need new minds for the future, as we will always need a new model of thinking to see thing from another angle

Uspring

Mon Jan 20 2014, 10:48AM

Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
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Ash Small wrote:

It has been suggested to me recently that this explanation could explain 'dark matter', ie that the 'extra matter' required could just be so far away, and travelling so fast, (relative to the observer, due to the expansion of space) that we can't see or detect it, and that the universe is actually far bigger than we think.

The gravitational effect of dark matter, which is the reason, why it is believed to exist, propagates at the speed of light. If it is too far away these effects would not be detected.

It was also suggested that this could also explain why 'we' appear to be at approximately the centre of the universe.

I once read (I don't know if this analogy is accurate), that the universe resembles the surface of a balloon being inflated. Every object on the surface recedes from every other one without there being a unique point which could be called a center. This also illustrates nicely how the universe can be finite in volume without having any boundaries.

Carbon_Rod

Mon Jan 20 2014, 11:32AM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
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Inflationary theory is unique to this time, in that one can measure the relative position shifts of Galaxies to extrapolate an origin. From this, one can project that there will come a time when observers will simply be unable to determine if the distance between observable galaxies is undergoing expansion. Thus, inflationary theories will cease to exist as the naÃ¯ve notion of a galaxy will become the universe for each set of the isolated galactic systems' occupants.

One can only speculate if the properties of non-space has a similar phenomena exhibited by the universe itself. Thus, an observer from within the system can't possibly know their true position if they can't know the spacial or temporal context of what they can't observe dimensionally.

I suspect it already contains a placard reading, "This space intentionally left blank".

IamSmooth

Mon Jan 20 2014, 02:31PM

Registered Member #190 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 12:00AM
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I always the universe expanded because of the matter expanding outwards from the big bang. If all the matter started from a single point, how is it that space itself is expanding?

Dr. Dark Current

Mon Jan 20 2014, 07:18PM

Registered Member #152 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 03:36PM
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The universe is a giant black hole, where galaxies are "born" at the event horizon. It does not expand, but actually contract as everything falls into the singularity. The stars and galaxies just look like they are travelling away, because the singularity causes light trajectories to bend around it, the more the closer they are - so the light forms uncompleted loops. Light can even orbit several times around the singularity, creating an illusion of distant galaxies, which are actually a copy of closer ones, just how they looked back in time and from a different point of view. This theory may not be right, but it could.

Edit: May not be a "classical" black hole, just for the purpose of similarity. If you wish, you can imagine something with a really big mass in the center

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