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4hv.org :: Forums :: High Voltage
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multivibrator flyback driver ?

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jake3085
Thu May 31 2012, 12:22AM Print
jake3085 Registered Member #4800 Joined: Wed May 09 2012, 04:23AM
Location:
Posts: 39
hey guys im just wondering if this circuit i drew up would work well for a flyback driver? i havnt written any values as i do not no what values would work the best.
heres a pic (exuse my messy writing. i never got my pen licence in primary school lol)

1338423592 4800 FT0 Img 0827
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brandon3055
Thu May 31 2012, 01:09AM
brandon3055 Registered Member #4548 Joined: Mon Apr 23 2012, 03:52AM
Location: tasmania
Posts: 271
Ant those two pnp's suposed to be npn's other than that it might work
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Neet Studio
Thu May 31 2012, 01:28AM
Neet Studio Registered Member #4037 Joined: Fri Jul 29 2011, 03:13PM
Location:
Posts: 86
When in doubt, try it in LTSpice or other favor of Spice.

The quality of a design is inversely proportional to # of trim pots. When you get to more than 4, it would be hard enough for anyone to duplicate the hack.
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Sulaiman
Thu May 31 2012, 04:26AM
Sulaiman Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3141
It looks like it should work.

It's not essential but it would be better to draw this circuit the other way up,
most of us are used to Positive at the top and Negative at the bottom,
it's just a common practice.
Circuitry is quicker to resognise the 'right' way up, the 'normal' way.
(e.g. 'Destroyer of Mosfets' thought the pnp transistors should be npn)

Another useful convention is to have the signal flow from Left to Right,
again, just a common practice and not essential, this you have done.

Although it would work it has a few weak points,

I would replace the top 100R in your circuit with a short-circuit.

This kind of two transistor multivibrator produces a collector waveform
with a fast (square) positive going edge
(I would normally say 'rising' edge but your circuit is upside-down)
and a slower negative going edge.

The power/output/flyback transistor can be turned on slowly
(because the load is mainly inductive, current rises almost linearly versus time)
but it should be switched off as quickly as possible to get a good 'flyback' pulse.

If you have access to an oscilloscope,
build a two transistor multivibrator and look at the waveforms.

To get enough current drive for the bipolar transistor
the multivibrator would need to operate at quite high current levels also.

I would insert a buffer/driver stage between the multivibrator and the power transistor.
Keep the pnp multivibrator,
drive an npn transistor like in your diagram
and have that npn short the base-emitter of the output transistor,
which is driven by a suitable resistor to the positive supply.

The resistor from positive supply to the output transistor base
needs to supply sufficient current,
if this is for a typical 'flyback' transformer or ignition coil
the collector current would probably be a few amps,
and the current gain of high voltage transistors is normally quite low.
e.g. for 5 A peak in the transformer primary a base drive of 0.5 A may be required
if from the 5 V supply that would mean
R = V/I = (5V - 1V)/0.5A = 8 Ohms !
(the 1V is the base-emitter voltage of the output transistor)
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jake3085
Thu May 31 2012, 11:31PM
jake3085 Registered Member #4800 Joined: Wed May 09 2012, 04:23AM
Location:
Posts: 39
Sulaiman wrote ...

It looks like it should work.

It's not essential but it would be better to draw this circuit the other way up,
most of us are used to Positive at the top and Negative at the bottom,
it's just a common practice.
Circuitry is quicker to resognise the 'right' way up, the 'normal' way.
(e.g. 'Destroyer of Mosfets' thought the pnp transistors should be npn)

Another useful convention is to have the signal flow from Left to Right,
again, just a common practice and not essential, this you have done.

Although it would work it has a few weak points,

I would replace the top 100R in your circuit with a short-circuit.

This kind of two transistor multivibrator produces a collector waveform
with a fast (square) positive going edge
(I would normally say 'rising' edge but your circuit is upside-down)
and a slower negative going edge.

The power/output/flyback transistor can be turned on slowly
(because the load is mainly inductive, current rises almost linearly versus time)
but it should be switched off as quickly as possible to get a good 'flyback' pulse.

If you have access to an oscilloscope,
build a two transistor multivibrator and look at the waveforms.

To get enough current drive for the bipolar transistor
the multivibrator would need to operate at quite high current levels also.

I would insert a buffer/driver stage between the multivibrator and the power transistor.
Keep the pnp multivibrator,
drive an npn transistor like in your diagram
and have that npn short the base-emitter of the output transistor,
which is driven by a suitable resistor to the positive supply.

The resistor from positive supply to the output transistor base
needs to supply sufficient current,
if this is for a typical 'flyback' transformer or ignition coil
the collector current would probably be a few amps,
and the current gain of high voltage transistors is normally quite low.
e.g. for 5 A peak in the transformer primary a base drive of 0.5 A may be required
if from the 5 V supply that would mean
R = V/I = (5V - 1V)/0.5A = 8 Ohms !
(the 1V is the base-emitter voltage of the output transistor)

yeah im not sure why i did it upside down i dont usualy do that lol. if i were to connect another power transistor to the collector of the other transistor to the left of the multivibrator would the two power transistors turn on 180degres out of phase? and is there a way i could turn the squarewave into a signwave and i will do the buffer stage.
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Sulaiman
Fri Jun 01 2012, 05:20AM
Sulaiman Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3141
yeah im not sure why i did it upside down i dont usualy do that lol. if i were to connect another power transistor to the collector of the other transistor to the left of the multivibrator would the two power transistors turn on 180degres out of phase?

YES

and is there a way i could turn the squarewave into a signwave and i will do the buffer stage.

YES ... have a look at Royer/zvs/cfpr inverters that others have built.
You can build a sinewave 'zvs' inverter the usual way (there are some complications)
or you could use your astable multivibrator with buffers and npn power transistors to drive the primary of a zvs inverter which would be quite reliable
IF you run your astable at the resonant frequency of the
primary inductance//capacitance
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jake3085
Fri Jun 01 2012, 03:00PM
jake3085 Registered Member #4800 Joined: Wed May 09 2012, 04:23AM
Location:
Posts: 39
Sulaiman wrote ...

yeah im not sure why i did it upside down i dont usualy do that lol. if i were to connect another power transistor to the collector of the other transistor to the left of the multivibrator would the two power transistors turn on 180degres out of phase?

YES

and is there a way i could turn the squarewave into a signwave and i will do the buffer stage.

YES ... have a look at Royer/zvs/cfpr inverters that others have built.
You can build a sinewave 'zvs' inverter the usual way (there are some complications)
or you could use your astable multivibrator with buffers and npn power transistors to drive the primary of a zvs inverter which would be quite reliable
IF you run your astable at the resonant frequency of the
primary inductance//capacitance

thanks for your help im sure going to give this all a try when i get the money to hopefully it works well and i have made the royer bjt driver its on here someware its called "simple high power non zvs duel flyback driver " the arcs were pretty spectaculor :) thanks for all your help!!! :)
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