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Convair corp. and rocket propellant...

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Patrick

Tue Jan 17 2012, 08:50AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

I'm totally too druNk to walk, and have question....

watchign the history/military channel and went to wiki found this quote;

from here ->

and heres the quote...

"The Convair Division produced its own airplane designs, such as several airliners, until 1965, when it shifted from these to airframe/aerostructure subcontracting projects for other companies. Convair also shifted more money and effort into its outer space products, especially rocket boosters. The Convair-made and cryogenically fueled Atlas missile ICBM for the U.S. Air Force had within just a handful of years become obsolete, and had been replaced by the room-temperature liquid-fueled Titan II missile and the solid-fueled Minuteman missile."

whats the differencew
?

cryo-genic / room temp, what do they mean?

EDIT": is one meaning liqiud hydrogen exposed to atompshere ? therefore pressure vessles (with great weight) become irrelevnt?

or do they mean kerosene, cause kerosene iz lame.

im driunk and confused...

Steve Conner

Tue Jan 17 2012, 09:56AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Cryogenically fuelled = liquid oxygen for the oxidizer. Fuel can be liquid hydrogen or kerosene.

Room temperature fuelled = nitric acid, dinitrogen tetroxide, etc. for the oxidiser. Fuel is usually hydrazine or kerosene.

You seem pretty well fuelled yourself, so maybe you should try drinking some liquid oxygen and lighting a fart.

Patrick

Tue Jan 17 2012, 11:24AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Steve Conner wrote ...

You seem pretty well fuelled yourself, so maybe you should try drinking some liquid oxygen and lighting a fart.

ATM that would be excessively dangerous!

yeah but it says the Cryo's were developed first, then they were later made obselete by the room temp ones? does that sound right? i would expect it to be the other way around, like the german V2/A12 development program...

Steve Conner

Tue Jan 17 2012, 11:56AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Yes, that's right. For a long time, they couldn't figure out how to stop fuming nitric acid from corroding the fuel tanks, and they couldn't find any other good room-temperature oxidiser.

So liquid oxygen was the next best thing and ICBMs had to be fuelled at the last minute.

After a lot of research, they came up with "Inhibited" red fuming nitric acid. Later still, a form of hydrazine was concocted that wouldn't freeze in winter. IRFNA/UDMH is now the standard storable propellant combination for missiles.

It's all in the book "Ignition" by John D. Clark, now out of print but available from your local file sharing network! :p

Patrick

Tue Jan 17 2012, 12:00PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Steve Conner wrote ...

Yes, that's right. For a long time, they couldn't figure out how to stop fuming nitric acid from corroding the fuel tanks, and they couldn't find any other good room-temperature oxidiser.

So liquid oxygen was the next best thing and ICBMs had to be fuelled at the last minute.

It's all in the book "Ignition" by John D. Clark, now out of print but available from your local file sharing network! :p

Ahhh yes that explanation clears things up!
I now the significance of USDMH, and the red-fuming nitric acid, but the other stuff i did not.

i will read that book, id also like to find "no guts, no glory" by Frederick boots blesse, but cant find it...

Im reading John D. Clark's work now!
"Peroxide-Always a bridesmaid " ...LOL! does sound about right though.

klugesmith

Wed Jan 18 2012, 01:28AM

Registered Member #2099 Joined: Wed Apr 29 2009, 12:22AM
Location: Los Altos, California
Posts: 1716

Steve Conner wrote ...
Yes, that's right. For a long time, they couldn't figure out how to stop fuming nitric acid from corroding the fuel tanks, and they couldn't find any other good room-temperature oxidiser.

After a lot of research, they came up with "Inhibited" red fuming nitric acid. Later still, a form of hydrazine was concocted that wouldn't freeze in winter. IRFNA/UDMH is now the standard storable propellant combination for missiles.

Yup. Don't overlook the system benefit of a hypergolic combination, esp. for an engine that has to be started more than once per flight.
Ever wonder why Space Shuttle astronauts didn't open the hatch right after landing?
Among other things, ground crew had to verify that the OMS system wasn't leaking any N2O4 or monomethyl hydrazine.

Patrick

Wed Jan 18 2012, 02:25AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

yes kluge, the shuttles also putout alot of ammonia after landing.

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