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Registered Member #1451
Joined: Wed Apr 23 2008, 03:48AM
Location: Boulder, Co
Posts: 661
I thought that special relativity stated that an object cannot be accelerated past the speed of light. Does it say anything about traveling faster? Weren't there particles proposed that can travel faster? I remember reading about them somewhere.
I'd also be curious to how they measured how long it took the neutrinos to get there if it was traveling faster than light. How was the instant it left synchronized with the end point?
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
neutrinos are very strange things. It was believed that they don't interact with anything, yet they travel at different speeds depending on the medium they are travelling through. There are also loads of 'inconsistensies' with the 'standard model'.
(Or maybe the rumours were true, and the LHC is 'creating' a black hole, and even stranger phenomena. Heisenberg's paradox....Maybe, if it tries hard enough to find it, the LHC will actually 'create' the Higg's boson?)
EDIT: I've made a mistake here, in the first paragraph. See post lower down.
Registered Member #3888
Joined: Sun May 15 2011, 09:50PM
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 649
yea turkey's got a good point. how could they tell with such precision the neutrino's departure and arrival if they were going faster than any signal could be transmitted between the two points?
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Forty wrote ...
how could they tell with such precision the neutrino's departure and arrival if they were going faster than any signal could be transmitted between the two points?
When I was at school in the '70s we measured the speed of light in the lab using rotating mirrors, and the results were surprisingly accurate.
It surprised me at the time.
Maybe, if their equipment will 'only' measure 'up tp the speed of light', maybe they've deduced that the neutrinos are travelling too fast for their equipment to measure?
Or maybe they can measure speeds in excess of the speed of light. Either way, the result is still the same.
Registered Member #96
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061
Interesting.
However, this would suggest that the effects from SN1987A would make sense. Over such large distances assuming a 60 nsec delay for superluminal neutrinos they would be expected to arrive earlier than either the normal neutrinos or photons, an hour was mentioned.
If the difference is a consistent 60 nsec over distance n, then it should be possible to calculate precisely how far away a given supernova was.
Ought to be easy to test, look for a pair of neutrino spikes a short time apart and you can be pretty sure of a discovery.
Registered Member #235
Joined: Wed Feb 22 2006, 04:59PM
Location:
Posts: 80
Here is the document that outlines their results and the experimental design:
60ns * C ~ 18m Their distance accuracy was 20cm
They calculated 6sigma significance for their timing errors...
It certainly is interesting.
Conundrum wrote ...
Interesting.
However, this would suggest that the effects from SN1987A would make sense. Over such large distances assuming a 60 nsec delay for superluminal neutrinos they would be expected to arrive earlier than either the normal neutrinos or photons, an hour was mentioned.
If the difference is a consistent 60 nsec over distance n, then it should be possible to calculate precisely how far away a given supernova was.
Ought to be easy to test, look for a pair of neutrino spikes a short time apart and you can be pretty sure of a discovery.
-A
I hope someone double checks my math but here goes... According to this new data neutrinos travel at (730534.61m/(730534.61m/c - 60ns)) = 299799840m/s Where as light is 299792458m/s, neutrinos are 0.002% faster. SN1987A is ~186000 light years from earth. The neutrinos should arrive 299792458/299799840 * 186000 = 185995.42 ~ 4.5 years sooner than light. They only arrived a couple hours earlier, which should 'easily' be explained by light interacting with matter near the supernova and the neutrinos not interacting.
Has anyone considered that there could be different "flavors" of neutrinos that travel at different speeds, some only arising in certain interactions? It could be possible that, yes, SN1987A was just normal light-particulate interaction that slowed down the light whereas the neutrinos just passed right through. However, if the SN did not create the interaction necessary for the superluminal neutrinos to be generated, then the concept is moot; nonetheless, they may still exist.
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
I made a mistake in my first post in this thread. The last two posts jogged my memory.
I read a couple of years ago, regarding mutations from one flavour to another, that (I think I read this correctly) neutrinos have no mass, except when they are passing through another meduim. (I had posted that their velocity changed, depending on the medium, but it is the mass that changes. they are massless in a vacuum, if I remember correctly) but that otherwise they have no interaction with anything.) they can also change flavour.
(It's probably a couple of years since I read the article)
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Speed of light 'broken' by scientists
