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Registered Member #3781
Joined: Sat Mar 26 2011, 02:25AM
Location:
Posts: 701
I have a couple questions relating to wire gauge and type
First off, what's the difference between solid and stranded? I know houses are typically wired with solid but then most of the power cords that are connected to the mains are stranded.
Secondly, how do the different gauges impact sound quality? I'm installing a sound system for my friends car tonight and for the power to the subwoofer amp you're "supposed" to use something really low like 4 gauge but would 16 gauge really make that much of a difference? I'm also wondering if there really is that big of a difference in sound quality between 10 gauge and say 18. Same with the casing, "speaker wire" uses a thick rubber casing, won't regular battery wire work fine?
Registered Member #1875
Joined: Sun Dec 21 2008, 06:36PM
Location:
Posts: 635
I think the reason that solid is used in house wiring and stranded in mains cords is mostly an issue of cost and flexibility- solid is cheaper but for a cord you need the flexibility of stranded.
As for audio, there are probably a lot of opinions on the matter but I think you can get away with thinner wires if you keep the connections short. It also depends on the power of the subwoofer. I just use what I have handy. If the voltages being carried are below 50v then I wouldn't worry about insulation thickness so much, but still, you have to use the best judgment for your specific application.
Registered Member #3766
Joined: Sun Mar 20 2011, 05:39AM
Location:
Posts: 624
Solid wire is solid, stranded is stranded. Basically, stranded has a whole bunch of little strands in it.
You need to be sure to use large enough wire for the subwoofer or the current might be too much and actually melt the wire.
I think that the thick casing is to prevent the wires from interfering from with each other through inductance or capacitance or just the fields. I don't know what the difference will be if you substitute things.
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Dr. Kilovolt wrote ...
Just use a thick enough wire for the speakers so the resistance (and voltage drop) is negligible compared to the impedance of the speaker.
Yes what Dr. Kilovolt said...
the large diameter wire is used to get the power from the battery to the amp to the speakers, and then back. if you were to use 16 Awg to conduct 200 amps you might cause a fire.
remember Kirchoffs laws, with low voltage low impedance speakers, if the wire resistence were to approach that of the speaker/woofer then you would expect the same current everywhere in a series circuit, but the V drop would shed alot of power from the woofer to heat the copper.
the solid is cheaper, but stranded is used so the connections on the speakers/woofers/amp dont see a lot of force, ive broken some connections off of eqiupment just from the springy-ness of the solid wire. the stranded will have a smaller bending radius and is preffered to route through cars.
the insulation thickness is far greater than actually required, this is to account for vibration, installation sharps causing some deformation, and age caused defects. But thats no excuse to let the insulation get damaged. ( F-16's crashed and pilots were killed in the 70's due to wire chaffing against threaded screws)
you could use 4 or 6 Awg three phase appliance rubber cord SOO or SOOW from lowes home depot or whoever, its pretty flexible, and meant for 480 Vac, 200+amps or wahtever. You could cut the black sheath off and youd have red, white, green, and black wires.
EDIT: a word of caution, the National Electric Code are leagl standards that set building/human safety standards, so when you look up the ampacity tables for in wall solid wire, your seeing standards that are way below what the copper could actually do. These are broad standards for many differnet states, climates, conditions, so for human saftey they under estimate what the copper/insulation can really do, as constuction workers/electricians dont have engineering degrees.
(the ampacity markings you see on the speaker cord would be very different from the ampacity of the NEC tables for a wire of the same Circular Mill area, so dont think your making a fair comparison)
To avoid this, as i am an engineer and thus expected to be able to optimze functional requirements i use temperature rise (insulation temp) or voltage drop (power loss) to calculate the right diameter and length for what I need, then apply a safety margin. This is how real men do it, leave the look up tables to the pansies and children.
Registered Member #27
Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058
Solid wires will become brittle and break if there is movement (vibration) over long enough time. So they should only be used when mounted properly to something that is solid.
Registered Member #509
Joined: Sat Feb 10 2007, 07:02AM
Location:
Posts: 329
Patrick wrote ...
the insulation thickness is far greater than actually required, this is to account for vibration, installation sharps causing some deformation, and age caused defects. But thats no excuse to let the insulation get damaged. ( F-16's crashed and pilots were killed in the 70's due to wire chaffing against threaded screws)
Dont forget because it looks "cool" and "better" Though I find 18 awg wiring with 1/8" thick insulation on it a bit annyoing more then anything since its hard to strip at times. IIRC the F-16 crashes were due to polyimide/kapton insulation whch has creep/cold flow issues. I.E. harness sitting on a stress point, cold flow thinning the insulation, and chafing working the rest of the way though it.
Patrick wrote ...
you could use 4 or 6 Awg three phase appliance rubber cord SOO or SOOW from lowes home depot or whoever, its pretty flexible, and meant for 480 Vac, 200+amps or wahtever. You could cut the black sheath off and youd have red, white, green, and black wires.
Used this for hooking up an amp on the cheap in the past too, 8AWG for me though, and it was almost *too* flexible, and springy, and would pull back into its helix shape. (stripped the black jacket off)
Patrick wrote ...
EDIT: a word of caution, the National Electric Code are leagl standards that set building/human safety standards, so when you look up the ampacity tables for in wall solid wire, your seeing standards that are way below what the copper could actually do. These are broad standards for many differnet states, climates, conditions, so for human saftey they under estimate what the copper/insulation can really do, as constuction workers/electricians dont have engineering degrees.
(the ampacity markings you see on the speaker cord would be very different from the ampacity of the NEC tables for a wire of the same Circular Mill area, so dont think your making a fair comparison)
To avoid this, as i am an engineer and thus expected to be able to optimze functional requirements i use temperature rise (insulation temp) or voltage drop (power loss) to calculate the right diameter and length for what I need, then apply a safety margin. This is how real men do it, leave the look up tables to the pansies and children.
For the pansies and children. Though their "Maximum amps for power transmission" is even lower then residental NEC (15A, for 14 AWG 20A for 12 gauge for house wiring per NEC, 6A and 10A, respectively, on that chart. )
Registered Member #2463
Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
Solid wire is necessary for home use because stranded does not work well in outlet terminations, i.e. under the screws on outlets and sockets unless special (more expensive) binding plates are provided.
Look into the wire specifications of size, weight, insulation diameter of solid VS stranded.
Then you get into very large gauges, they don't make commonly make solid. If they did, no one would ever be able to draw it into ducts or conduits without smashing them to pieces.
One of the most interesting flexible cables to consider is the elevator control cable.Those who deal with flex cables to machinery may tell you some things.
Registered Member #2431
Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
ConKbot of Doom wrote ...
IIRC the F-16 crashes were due to polyimide/kapton insulation whch has creep/cold flow issues. I.E. harness sitting on a stress point, cold flow thinning the insulation, and chafing working the rest of the way though it.
Really? I thought it was chaffing, I know a passenger aircraft crashed on greenland/iceland or somewhere went down because Kapton could burn ( like a fuse in bugs bunny cartoons) from one end to the other. I know that since this passenger aircraft crashed, the FAA changed the rules so pure kapton could not be used, it had to be layered with teflon or polyimide or something.
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Difference between wires
IIRC the F-16 crashes were due to polyimide/kapton insulation whch has creep/cold flow issues. I.E. harness sitting on a stress point, cold flow thinning the insulation, and chafing working the rest of the way though it. 
Though their "Maximum amps for power transmission" is even lower then residental NEC (15A, for 14 AWG 20A for 12 gauge for house wiring per NEC, 6A and 10A, respectively, on that chart. )