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hsieh

Mon May 02 2011, 12:44AM

Registered Member #1412 Joined: Thu Mar 27 2008, 04:07PM
Location: Taipei Taiwan
Posts: 278

after reading some threads about homemade X-ray machines,I'm considering to build my own.But I think I can't find the Fluorescent screen or Scintillators describe here.

I heard that films or photographic papers are sensitive to X-ray.But my parents won't allow me to develop photos at home.

Is it possible to use "instant films" to detect X-ray?

But after some Internet search I understand that they are sealed in a special box.I think is not easy to get it out without expose it.

Can I get it out in complete darkness,use it to detect X-ray,and activate it's develop process by rolling something over it?Will this work?

Or is it possible to use "glow in the dark" material to detect X-ray?

Thanks

magnet18

Mon May 02 2011, 01:10AM

Registered Member #3766 Joined: Sun Mar 20 2011, 05:39AM
Location:

Posts: 624

Your parents are letting you build an x-ray machine, but they wont let you develop film?

There are probably ways around it, possible using something that absorbs ex-rays and emits visible light, then snap a regular picture?

hsieh

Mon May 02 2011, 01:58AM

Registered Member #1412 Joined: Thu Mar 27 2008, 04:07PM
Location: Taipei Taiwan
Posts: 278

magnet18 wrote ...

Your parents are letting you build an x-ray machine, but they wont let you develop film?

There are probably ways around it, possible using something that absorbs ex-rays and emits visible light, then snap a regular picture?

My parents don't know what circuit or device I'm building,but developing film might need a lot of space and require using various chemicals solutions.This may affact other family members.

And in the digital image era,I'm not sure if it is easy to find those chemicals and other necessary materials in the location I live.

James

Mon May 02 2011, 02:22AM

Registered Member #3610 Joined: Thu Jan 13 2011, 03:29AM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 506

Fluorescent screens can be obtained from x-ray film cassettes. To get reasonable results though you need a good camera, ideally a DSLR type. You still need much more exposure than with film. Polaroid type instant film does work, I've never tried it myself but others have reported good results.

Seriously though, developing monochrome film and paper is a very straightforward process. The chemicals are readily available, inexpensive, and relatively safe. Radiography is fun, but it is one of those things that truly can be very dangerous. You can't see or feel the radiation, it penetrates many materials effortlessly, absorbed dose accumulates over time and you can seriously increase your risk of developing cancer. Even more important than protecting yourself is ensuring that you do not irradiate anyone else nearby. You can get in serious trouble if it is discovered that this has happened. Proper shielding, and a way of measuring radiation leakage is absolutely essential. BE CAREFUL!

klugesmith

Mon May 02 2011, 06:12AM

Registered Member #2099 Joined: Wed Apr 29 2009, 12:22AM
Location: Los Altos, California
Posts: 1716

è¬æ˜•å“² wrote ...
Is it possible to use "instant films" to detect X-ray

Yes, in a couple of ways.
Polaroid used to make instant film specifically for x-rays.

More recently, I read about an amateur making "color" radiographs using the instant film technology originally introduced with the SX-70 camera. Normally, the camera ejects the film immediately after the exposure. Initially it's plain white, because on the way out of the camera the sensitive surface is covered with an opaque white paste. In the next minute, the image appears as dyes are released and diffuse through the white layer.

Point is, immediately after ejection from the camera, the film is no longer sensitive to light but IS still sensitive to x-rays. What this experimenter did (sorry, I could not find the reference in 5 minutes of Googling) is:
1) With camera lens cap on, push the shutter button. Blank picture pops out. If left alone, it would turn into a solid black image.
2) Put the blank picture in x-ray apparatus, close the shielding door, make x-ray exposure within the first 5 or 10 seconds.
3) wait for radiograph to appear.

hsieh

Mon May 02 2011, 08:09AM

Registered Member #1412 Joined: Thu Mar 27 2008, 04:07PM
Location: Taipei Taiwan
Posts: 278

Klugesmith wrote ...

Point is, immediately after ejection from the camera, the film is no longer sensitive to light but IS still sensitive to x-rays. What this experimenter did (sorry, I could not find the reference in 5 minutes of Googling) is:
1) With camera lens cap on, push the shutter button. Blank picture pops out. If left alone, it would turn into a solid black image.
2) Put the blank picture in x-ray apparatus, close the shielding door, make x-ray exposure within the first 5 or 10 seconds.
3) wait for radiograph to appear.

But I don't have an instant camera.Is it possible to use the instant film to make radiograph without a instant camera?

magnet18

Mon May 02 2011, 11:36AM

Registered Member #3766 Joined: Sun Mar 20 2011, 05:39AM
Location:

Posts: 624

è¬æ˜•å“² wrote ...
Is it possible to use the instant film to make radiograph without a instant camera?

I doubt it, unless you want to make the film yourself, which defeats the purpose.

Where are you planning on doing this at? Taipei isn't the most spread out city, since your folks are worried about the space required to develop photos I'm guessing you live in an apartment. X-rays like to scatter, I'll bet they can go through walls depending on how there made, and I doubt your neighbors will want to be irradiated.

Proud Mary

Mon May 02 2011, 12:02PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

magnet18 wrote ...

è¬æ˜•å“² wrote ...
Is it possible to use the instant film to make radiograph without a instant camera?

I doubt it, unless you want to make the film yourself, which defeats the purpose.

Using "boil-in-a-bag" developer technology, the X-ray film plus intensifying screen comes in individual foil sachets into which you inject the developer after exposing the film.

magnet18 wrote ...

Where are you planning on doing this at? Taipei isn't the most spread out city, since your folks are worried about the space required to develop photos I'm guessing you live in an apartment. X-rays like to scatter, I'll bet they can go through walls depending on how there made, and I doubt your neighbors will want to be irradiated.

You're right about this though, Mr Magnet.

Under no circumstances should children be given access to X-ray technology, or be encouraged in any activity without the informed consent of their parents.

James

Mon May 02 2011, 05:45PM

Registered Member #3610 Joined: Thu Jan 13 2011, 03:29AM
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 506

You could do it without the camera so long as you have a set of rollers to run the film through. Polaroid cameras can be found quite cheaply though so that shouldn't be much of an issue. Still seems like too much work though. I develop film and prints in my bathroom. When not in use, all of my supplies including a measuring cup and red LED nightlight fit neatly into the stacked developer trays that I stash in the cabinet under the sink.

I'm really concerned that you are not taking the safety aspect of this seriously though. If you are in an apartment, you absolutely will need a shielded box to operate x-ray equipment in. You will need to use lead shielding to ensure that both direct and scattered x-rays are absorbed. I'm not exaggerating the potential danger here. I know nothing about the legal system in Taiwan, but in some parts of the world, playing with this stuff at home could land you in prison.

IamSmooth

Mon May 02 2011, 09:39PM

Registered Member #190 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 12:00AM
Location:
Posts: 1567

è¬æ˜•å“² wrote ...

My parents don't know what circuit or device I'm building,but developing film might need a lot of space and require using various chemicals solutions.This may affact other family members.

I have to agree with others that Xrays are very dangerous. You will have no idea what level of exposure you are getting. In fact, you will probably be exposing your family members to radiation without them realizing it. Early pioneers in radiography died uncomfortable deaths because of exposure.

If you are serious about this you need to discuss it with your family. They need to know. Personally, I think you should try something safer unless you are fully prepared to get the necessary protective lead jackets, gloves and goggles.

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