New migraine treatment using TMS / General Science and Electronics / Forums

Forums

4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics

« Previous topic | Next topic »

New migraine treatment using TMS

Move Thread

LAN_403

Conundrum

Sun Apr 17 2011, 01:11PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

Just found this interesting article online discussing the recent discovery that single magnetic pulses can reduce migraine severity as well as reduce depression, see

It does raise an interesting point, just what are the restrictions on homemade self treatment devices? For example, I know that you can't legally sell them or even give them away, there was a discussion about whether even selling an unpopulated PCB or kit for a TENS machine was in breach of FDA rules.

Discuss.

-A

Marko

Sun Apr 17 2011, 04:52PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

Hi Conundrum,

Meh, now every next time I get a migraine I'll hate myself for not making this my next project..
Seriously, it's probably right they won't let anything like this mass produced, as nobody today has any clue how brain atually works, nor how TMS might affect it in long term.
I thought on trying building something like that a while ago, to observe phosphenes and other curiosities but I'm afraid it might actually cause a migraine or soemthing worse. Also, even if it proves to stop a migraine, such an atypical termination might make next attacks even more frequent or severe. It would suck to get your brain addicted to it and having to stay constantly connected to the machine to prevent migraines.

Also, regarding treatment of depression, am I the only one who finds going to hospital every day to have your pleasure center nuked by magnetic pulses very depressing on itself?

Marko

Conundrum

Sun Apr 17 2011, 07:57PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

The side effects of single pulses don't seem to be serious, its the continuous sort that carry a higher risk.

It appears from the article that the way this works is to "stall" the cortical spreading depression in its tracks.
I can't see how this can causen addiction...

PM me for more ideas..

-A

Proud Mary

Sun Apr 17 2011, 09:06PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

There have always been a good number of very effective therepeutic interventions whose exact mode of action is not understood, so not understanding just how a particular treatment works has never been grounds to exclude it from the armamentarium.

Marko

Sun Apr 17 2011, 09:20PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

After reading some more on it it seems that maximum fields that are used are in range of those used in MRI, hence under 2T and iron cores can and are used. That makes the whole process far easier since current required is reduced by like 3-4 orders of magnitude.

Marko

Xray

Mon Apr 18 2011, 04:18AM

Registered Member #3429 Joined: Sun Nov 21 2010, 02:04AM
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 288

I first heard about TMS a couple of years ago, and I was tempted to build my own unit to experiment with. I do not have depression, but I've seen a researcher who actually made someone smarter and able to more quickly think about things (such as counting a complex array of items on a computer screen). But even if I were able to build such a device, I am too chicken to apply it to my own head. It's my brain, after all! What if the device malfunctions causing permanent damage to my brain and I become a freakin vegatable for the rest of my life!!

So, are any of you 4hv guys brave enough to build a TMS device and apply it to your own head? If so, plrease report your results to the rest of us (if you are able to!!!!!).

Conundrum

Mon Apr 18 2011, 05:47AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

I came up with an intriguing idea, make a "litz wire" coil and pulse each winding from its own capacitor.

This would have the advantage that the fields would add but only require relatively low power components (20* 160uF photoflash) instead of a single massive capacitor and power supply.

In addition the pulse shape and amplitude could be adjusted in realtime by switching the individual coil segments in sequence without resorting to expensive pulse forming networks.

Charging could be done using those piezo transformers designed for CCFL use, as they seem to tolerate high load currents well without failing.

-A

Marko

Mon Apr 18 2011, 02:32PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

Hi guys

After going through google for a while, it seems that it makes a lot of sense to use an iron core (with a narrow gap to focus the magnetic field, much like a magnetic tape read head). It's only downside is that it makes the device heavier.

Articles seem to point out to most favorable risetime in range of 100us, so which means you want a period of resonant oscillation of 400us which translates to 2.5kHz resonant frequency. So with a relatively small 100uH inductor, 40uF would be the required capacitance. You would likely need many kV to get enough energy, and electrolytic caps might be too slow.

Marko

Conundrum

Tue Apr 19 2011, 10:02PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

Interesting article here

which suggests that tDCS increases the effectiveness of TMS by a large margin.
Possibly the mechanism is the direct current biasing the neurons so they tend to fire more easily when hit by the TMS pulse.

Also, has anyone tried my idea of mutliple parallel current paths running from a smaller capacitor?

-A

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob