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how to use a XR2207CN for a PLL?

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Inducktion
Fri Mar 11 2011, 05:24PM Print
Inducktion Registered Member #3637 Joined: Fri Jan 21 2011, 11:07PM
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1068
I have a voltage controlled oscillator from exar corporation..It's in a relatively old ceramic dip package, and I was wondering if its possible to use it for PLLing?

I tried looking around on the datasheet with no information on how to do so. It says it can be used for it though. Link2
t
thanks!
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JKowalski
Sun Mar 13 2011, 03:40AM
JKowalski Registered Member #3595 Joined: Mon Jan 10 2011, 04:46AM
Location:
Posts: 26
The PLL system is just a phase detector -> loop filter -> VCO -> back to phase detector.

The 4046 chip is a medley of the above. Phase detectors of all types and a VCO. It's meant as a modular chip that provides all the parts to build a PLL.

If all you have is a VCO (XR2206), then you need a phase detector. Simplest solution is to use a 4046's phase comparators. That brings up the question. Are you trying to use the XR2206 to get sine/triangle wave output? Or just a square wave? If the answer is square wave, then ditch the XR2206 and just use a 4046.

Using a different VCO shouldn't be much harder than using the 4046's, provided you know what you are doing. All you really need to know is the gain of the VCO (Hz/V), which is given explicitly on the XR2206 datasheet. Account for any quirks of the new VCO and the different gain.
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Inducktion
Sun Mar 13 2011, 04:14AM
Inducktion Registered Member #3637 Joined: Fri Jan 21 2011, 11:07PM
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1068
JKowalski wrote ...

The PLL system is just a phase detector -> loop filter -> VCO -> back to phase detector.

The 4046 chip is a medley of the above. Phase detectors of all types and a VCO. It's meant as a modular chip that provides all the parts to build a PLL.

If all you have is a VCO (XR2206), then you need a phase detector. Simplest solution is to use a 4046's phase comparators. That brings up the question. Are you trying to use the XR2206 to get sine/triangle wave output? Or just a square wave? If the answer is square wave, then ditch the XR2206 and just use a 4046.

Using a different VCO shouldn't be much harder than using the 4046's, provided you know what you are doing. All you really need to know is the gain of the VCO (Hz/V), which is given explicitly on the XR2206 datasheet. Account for any quirks of the new VCO and the different gain.

It's not the XR2206, its the XR2207. Different chip. Not made specifically for PLL, it just says it can be used for PLL. And what is a phase detector? Could I use an XOR gate for this purpose? And, I don't have any way of getting a 4046 so...
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JKowalski
Sun Mar 13 2011, 04:25AM
JKowalski Registered Member #3595 Joined: Mon Jan 10 2011, 04:46AM
Location:
Posts: 26
Inducktion wrote ...

JKowalski wrote ...

The PLL system is just a phase detector -> loop filter -> VCO -> back to phase detector.

The 4046 chip is a medley of the above. Phase detectors of all types and a VCO. It's meant as a modular chip that provides all the parts to build a PLL.

If all you have is a VCO (XR2206), then you need a phase detector. Simplest solution is to use a 4046's phase comparators. That brings up the question. Are you trying to use the XR2206 to get sine/triangle wave output? Or just a square wave? If the answer is square wave, then ditch the XR2206 and just use a 4046.

Using a different VCO shouldn't be much harder than using the 4046's, provided you know what you are doing. All you really need to know is the gain of the VCO (Hz/V), which is given explicitly on the XR2206 datasheet. Account for any quirks of the new VCO and the different gain.

It's not the XR2206, its the XR2207. Different chip. Not made specifically for PLL, it just says it can be used for PLL. And what is a phase detector? Could I use an XOR gate for this purpose? And, I don't have any way of getting a 4046 so...

Ah, well it's almost the same thing just with a different I/O configuration.

Phase detector = phase comparator. Yes, an XOR gate would work (if you look at the 4046 datasheet you can see that the "type I" phase comparator is just that - an XOR gate. )
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Inducktion
Sun Mar 13 2011, 04:51AM
Inducktion Registered Member #3637 Joined: Fri Jan 21 2011, 11:07PM
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1068
JKowalski wrote ...

Inducktion wrote ...

JKowalski wrote ...

The PLL system is just a phase detector -> loop filter -> VCO -> back to phase detector.

The 4046 chip is a medley of the above. Phase detectors of all types and a VCO. It's meant as a modular chip that provides all the parts to build a PLL.

If all you have is a VCO (XR2206), then you need a phase detector. Simplest solution is to use a 4046's phase comparators. That brings up the question. Are you trying to use the XR2206 to get sine/triangle wave output? Or just a square wave? If the answer is square wave, then ditch the XR2206 and just use a 4046.

Using a different VCO shouldn't be much harder than using the 4046's, provided you know what you are doing. All you really need to know is the gain of the VCO (Hz/V), which is given explicitly on the XR2206 datasheet. Account for any quirks of the new VCO and the different gain.

It's not the XR2206, its the XR2207. Different chip. Not made specifically for PLL, it just says it can be used for PLL. And what is a phase detector? Could I use an XOR gate for this purpose? And, I don't have any way of getting a 4046 so...

Ah, well it's almost the same thing just with a different I/O configuration.

Phase detector = phase comparator. Yes, an XOR gate would work (if you look at the 4046 datasheet you can see that the "type I" phase comparator is just that - an XOR gate. )


Unfortunately I would have NO idea of how to hook up the XOR gate to the XR2207 to make it PLL.
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JKowalski
Sun Mar 13 2011, 05:58PM
JKowalski Registered Member #3595 Joined: Mon Jan 10 2011, 04:46AM
Location:
Posts: 26
Inducktion wrote ...

JKowalski wrote ...

Inducktion wrote ...

JKowalski wrote ...

The PLL system is just a phase detector -> loop filter -> VCO -> back to phase detector.

The 4046 chip is a medley of the above. Phase detectors of all types and a VCO. It's meant as a modular chip that provides all the parts to build a PLL.

If all you have is a VCO (XR2206), then you need a phase detector. Simplest solution is to use a 4046's phase comparators. That brings up the question. Are you trying to use the XR2206 to get sine/triangle wave output? Or just a square wave? If the answer is square wave, then ditch the XR2206 and just use a 4046.

Using a different VCO shouldn't be much harder than using the 4046's, provided you know what you are doing. All you really need to know is the gain of the VCO (Hz/V), which is given explicitly on the XR2206 datasheet. Account for any quirks of the new VCO and the different gain.

It's not the XR2206, its the XR2207. Different chip. Not made specifically for PLL, it just says it can be used for PLL. And what is a phase detector? Could I use an XOR gate for this purpose? And, I don't have any way of getting a 4046 so...

Ah, well it's almost the same thing just with a different I/O configuration.

Phase detector = phase comparator. Yes, an XOR gate would work (if you look at the 4046 datasheet you can see that the "type I" phase comparator is just that - an XOR gate. )


Unfortunately I would have NO idea of how to hook up the XOR gate to the XR2207 to make it PLL.


Then you need to study up on PLL design some more. It's a very difficult circuit concept to get working correctly and reliably.

Put simply, the phase comparator compares the input signal (signal to be locked onto) to the output of the VCO (with an XOR gate, preferably both logic level square waves). If you look at a timing diagram, the output of the XOR gate will be 1 whenever the two signals are not the same. By filtering the phase comparator pulse output correctly, you get a mostly-DC waveform which you apply to the VCO input. This will change the VCO frequency. If conditions are right (and they have to be carefully tailored) the VCO will tweak the output frequency, changing the phase comparator output pulses and therefore it's own control voltage until a stable condition is reached (hopefully a lock condition)
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Inducktion
Sun Mar 13 2011, 06:03PM
Inducktion Registered Member #3637 Joined: Fri Jan 21 2011, 11:07PM
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1068
JKowalski wrote ...

Inducktion wrote ...

JKowalski wrote ...

Inducktion wrote ...

JKowalski wrote ...

The PLL system is just a phase detector -> loop filter -> VCO -> back to phase detector.

The 4046 chip is a medley of the above. Phase detectors of all types and a VCO. It's meant as a modular chip that provides all the parts to build a PLL.

If all you have is a VCO (XR2206), then you need a phase detector. Simplest solution is to use a 4046's phase comparators. That brings up the question. Are you trying to use the XR2206 to get sine/triangle wave output? Or just a square wave? If the answer is square wave, then ditch the XR2206 and just use a 4046.

Using a different VCO shouldn't be much harder than using the 4046's, provided you know what you are doing. All you really need to know is the gain of the VCO (Hz/V), which is given explicitly on the XR2206 datasheet. Account for any quirks of the new VCO and the different gain.

It's not the XR2206, its the XR2207. Different chip. Not made specifically for PLL, it just says it can be used for PLL. And what is a phase detector? Could I use an XOR gate for this purpose? And, I don't have any way of getting a 4046 so...

Ah, well it's almost the same thing just with a different I/O configuration.

Phase detector = phase comparator. Yes, an XOR gate would work (if you look at the 4046 datasheet you can see that the "type I" phase comparator is just that - an XOR gate. )


Unfortunately I would have NO idea of how to hook up the XOR gate to the XR2207 to make it PLL.


Then you need to study up on PLL design some more. It's a very difficult circuit concept to get working correctly and reliably.

Put simply, the phase comparator compares the input signal (signal to be locked onto) to the output of the VCO (with an XOR gate, preferably both logic level square waves). If you look at a timing diagram, the output of the XOR gate will be 1 whenever the two signals are not the same. By filtering the phase comparator pulse output correctly, you get a mostly-DC waveform which you apply to the VCO input. This will change the VCO frequency. If conditions are right (and they have to be carefully tailored) the VCO will tweak the output frequency, changing the phase comparator output pulses and therefore it's own control voltage until a stable condition is reached (hopefully a lock condition)

So then should I put the output of the XOR gate to the BIAS pin of the XR2207?
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IamSmooth
Sun Mar 13 2011, 06:27PM
IamSmooth Registered Member #190 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 12:00AM
Location:
Posts: 1567
Induktion,

I don't know if you read the tutorial I suggested before, but it describes how the PLL works. It talks about the VCO and phase detector. I put up a lot of diagrams showing the waveforms.
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Inducktion
Sun Mar 13 2011, 06:47PM
Inducktion Registered Member #3637 Joined: Fri Jan 21 2011, 11:07PM
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1068
IamSmooth wrote ...

Induktion,

I don't know if you read the tutorial I suggested before, but it describes how the PLL works. It talks about the VCO and phase detector. I put up a lot of diagrams showing the waveforms.

Oh, I completely forgot about that... I'll go check that out again, thanks!
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