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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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How do Vacuum caps rotate, yet keep there vacuum?

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Patrick
Thu Feb 10 2011, 07:50AM Print
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
my brain has been pondering how to rotate a shaft and still keep the atmosphere from bursting through the shaft seal and poof....!!! vacuum gone? How is this done !?

I include these pics captured from evil Russian technicians....


1297324241 2431 FT0 Dsc07268

1297324241 2431 FT0 Dsc07271
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Dr. H.
Thu Feb 10 2011, 08:02AM
Dr. H. Registered Member #931 Joined: Mon Jul 30 2007, 05:25PM
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 486
Good day Patric

the plates inside do not rotate. Do you see that "corrigated" cilinder - this allows the plate to move up and down keeping the vacuum. It has someting like bolt and nut configuration inside - when you turn to adjust the nut moves on the bolt and moves the plate inside in or out of the other plate.

P.S. Those puppies are qute popular around here - always wanted to add one to my collection of tubes smile or made a VTTC with it ....

Cheers
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Patrick
Thu Feb 10 2011, 08:06AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
that copper acordians shorter and longer, whoa! thats cleaver, whats the cycle lifetime for such a device before it comes apart like a paper clip bent too and fro?

Also for $242US you can have two.

Link2
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Turkey9
Thu Feb 10 2011, 08:13AM
Turkey9 Registered Member #1451 Joined: Wed Apr 23 2008, 03:48AM
Location: Boulder, Co
Posts: 661
A simple o-ring groove with the proper gland design will hold a vacuum fine. For ultra high vacuums, a Teflon seal would work great. The only issue is getting it machined. It has to be seated against a well polished surface and the rod has to be slightly larger than the seal inside diameter. Teflon is used to seal vacuum ball valves.
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Ash Small
Thu Feb 10 2011, 12:34PM
Ash Small Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
They use bellows for the movement.

While what Turkey has written is used for low to medium vacuums for rotational movement, ferrofluidic seals are used for medium-high vacuums for rotational movement.
1297341281 3414 FT108301 Handling Fig
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Adam Munich
Fri Feb 11 2011, 01:49AM
Adam Munich Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242
They should just use magnets IMO...
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Steve Conner
Fri Feb 11 2011, 09:33AM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
The RF current in these things would induction heat and melt the magnets pretty quick.

Those copper bellows have a dual function, they also carry said RF current to the moving electrode.
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Electroholic
Mon Feb 21 2011, 05:38PM
Electroholic Registered Member #191 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 02:01AM
Location: Esbjerg Denmark
Posts: 720
Sorry for digging up this old thread, but I was looking at the cool tube thread and noticed Anders' cool tube collection.
So the next obvious question is, what about rotating anode xray tubes? Quick google search points to ferrofluid seals, is that the only way?
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Adam Munich
Mon Feb 21 2011, 05:41PM
Adam Munich Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242
I'm pretty sure that there a squirrel cage rotor in there or something similar, and it's rotated via external electromagnets.
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Proud Mary
Mon Feb 21 2011, 06:41PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Electroholic wrote ...

what about rotating anode xray tubes? Quick google search points to ferrofluid seals, is that the only way?

This generally takes the form of a synchronous motor, with the stator winding outside the evacuated envelope. A typical two-phase stator has two windings, one of which is fed by a capacitor such that a phase shift of 120° between the two windings produces a rotating magnetic field.

The rotor inside the envelope takes the form of a heavy copper cylinder mechanically coupled to the anode. The ball bearings must withstand 500° C, and use lead or silver powder as a lubricant. Tube life is largely dependent on bearing wear, with life expectancy typically being 1000 hrs. Valuable tubes are often rebuilt.

Typical rotation speeds are ~2800 rpm - i.e. 3000 rpm (in 50Hz countries) with losses - but a new generation of high speed tubes reach ~8500 rpm - 9000 rpm with losses - using 150Hz stator supply.


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