Welcome
Username or Email:

Password:


Missing Code




[ ]
[ ]
Online
  • Guests: 30
  • Members: 0
  • Newest Member: omjtest
  • Most ever online: 396
    Guests: 396, Members: 0 on 12 Jan : 12:51
Members Birthdays:
No birthdays today

Next birthdays
07/09 Avi (41)
07/09 Jannick Hagen (15)
07/10 Sparcz (69)
Contact
If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.


Special Thanks To:
  • Aaron Holmes
  • Aaron Wheeler
  • Adam Horden
  • Alan Scrimgeour
  • Andre
  • Andrew Haynes
  • Anonymous000
  • asabase
  • Austin Weil
  • barney
  • Barry
  • Bert Hickman
  • Bill Kukowski
  • Blitzorn
  • Brandon Paradelas
  • Bruce Bowling
  • BubeeMike
  • Byong Park
  • Cesiumsponge
  • Chris F.
  • Chris Hooper
  • Corey Worthington
  • Derek Woodroffe
  • Dalus
  • Dan Strother
  • Daniel Davis
  • Daniel Uhrenholt
  • datasheetarchive
  • Dave Billington
  • Dave Marshall
  • David F.
  • Dennis Rogers
  • drelectrix
  • Dr. John Gudenas
  • Dr. Spark
  • E.TexasTesla
  • eastvoltresearch
  • Eirik Taylor
  • Erik Dyakov
  • Erlend^SE
  • Finn Hammer
  • Firebug24k
  • GalliumMan
  • Gary Peterson
  • George Slade
  • GhostNull
  • Gordon Mcknight
  • Graham Armitage
  • Grant
  • GreySoul
  • Henry H
  • IamSmooth
  • In memory of Leo Powning
  • Jacob Cash
  • James Howells
  • James Pawson
  • Jeff Greenfield
  • Jeff Thomas
  • Jesse Frost
  • Jim Mitchell
  • jlr134
  • Joe Mastroianni
  • John Forcina
  • John Oberg
  • John Willcutt
  • Jon Newcomb
  • klugesmith
  • Leslie Wright
  • Lutz Hoffman
  • Mads Barnkob
  • Martin King
  • Mats Karlsson
  • Matt Gibson
  • Matthew Guidry
  • mbd
  • Michael D'Angelo
  • Mikkel
  • mileswaldron
  • mister_rf
  • Neil Foster
  • Nick de Smith
  • Nick Soroka
  • nicklenorp
  • Nik
  • Norman Stanley
  • Patrick Coleman
  • Paul Brodie
  • Paul Jordan
  • Paul Montgomery
  • Ped
  • Peter Krogen
  • Peter Terren
  • PhilGood
  • Richard Feldman
  • Robert Bush
  • Royce Bailey
  • Scott Fusare
  • Scott Newman
  • smiffy
  • Stella
  • Steven Busic
  • Steve Conner
  • Steve Jones
  • Steve Ward
  • Sulaiman
  • Thomas Coyle
  • Thomas A. Wallace
  • Thomas W
  • Timo
  • Torch
  • Ulf Jonsson
  • vasil
  • Vaxian
  • vladi mazzilli
  • wastehl
  • Weston
  • William Kim
  • William N.
  • William Stehl
  • Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: High Voltage
« Previous topic | Next topic »   

Have NST Waveforms...Need Help.

Move Thread LAN_403
Patrick
Fri Dec 17 2010, 04:24AM Print
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Ok, i used a voltage divider to capture these pics...


1292559862 2431 FT0 Cap1
above: single yellow trace, from the 6kv-ground of NST. (10x probe)

1292559862 2431 FT0 Cap2
above: yellow trace is same as previous pic. blue trace is 1x probe.

UPDATE: new waveforms.

1292562517 2431 FT1630 Pic3
blue trace is wall voltage/current divided down. yellow trace is as above.


1292562517 2431 FT1630 Pic4
Tick marks and lines for deltas.

EDIT:At least 1/0.016760s = 60Hz

my question is why is it not more sinusodal? i expected it to be a little noisy, but its so irregular.

let me do some math: if Vrms = Vp/root(2) then...
19.3/2 = Vp = 9.65V so...
9.65vp/root(2) = 6.82V as expected

so 6.82V X 1000 = 6.82kV!!!

I dont know about this ...but perhaps its the magnetic core shunts, which are used to limit short-circuit current. They may allow a sort of linear rise until clipping, then it flips back and forth to approximate a sinusoid?
Back to top
Pinky's Brain
Fri Dec 17 2010, 05:18AM
Pinky's Brain Registered Member #2901 Joined: Thu Jun 03 2010, 01:25PM
Location:
Posts: 837
As for the voltage, resonant rise?

Link2
Back to top
Patrick
Fri Dec 17 2010, 05:38AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
Pinky's Brain wrote ...

As for the voltage, resonant rise?

Link2
No i goofed on the math, thats fixed now. But why so non sinsoidal? do others with the p6015 (or other probe) get the same for thire NST's too?
Back to top
Xray
Fri Dec 17 2010, 05:56AM
Xray Registered Member #3429 Joined: Sun Nov 21 2010, 02:04AM
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 288
Patrick wrote ...


I dont know about this ...but perhaps its the magnetic core shunts, which are used to limit short-circuit current. They may allow a sort of linear rise until clipping, then it flips back and forth to approximate a sinusoid?


That would be MY guess. I think you got it right!

Are there any transformer guru's who can confirm this?
Back to top
Patrick
Fri Dec 17 2010, 06:04AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
I hope its that simple.
Back to top
Patrick
Fri Dec 17 2010, 07:21AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
oops my computer bothced this post, now its a double post-sorry. sad

heres this newest screen cap.


1292570500 2431 FT103594 Pic5

1292570500 2431 FT103594 Pic6
this looks better, properly scaled.
Back to top
Steve Conner
Fri Dec 17 2010, 09:36AM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Try looking at the mains voltage directly, it's never a pure sine wave.

Also, even if it was, the magnetic non-linearities in the NST will distort it, and the leakage inductance and self-capacitance of the secondary will ring from those distortion harmonics. Purity of output waveform was probably quite far down the NST designer's to-do list.

Back to top
Patrick
Fri Dec 17 2010, 10:02AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
So do the wave forms I've captured look like a "normal" NST?


Steve McConner wrote ...

Purity of output waveform was probably quite far down the NST designer's to-do list.
i did not expect it to be perfect, i just want to see if my resistive divider is out putting credible data.
Back to top
Patrick
Sat Dec 25 2010, 05:19PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
I think these oscillograms are accurate, for the yellow trace (5 kV per div) at 19.3 kVp-p X 0.707 = 13.6 kVrms which is really close ( better then 2% ) of what the DMM + R divider said.
Back to top

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob

Go to:

Powered by e107 Forum System
 
Legal Information
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.