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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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variac used for higher voltage

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IamSmooth
Sun Dec 12 2010, 05:59AM Print
IamSmooth Registered Member #190 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 12:00AM
Location:
Posts: 1567
If a variac is meant for 140v input @50A, could it be used at 240v @35A for short durations? It is close to the same kva.

I would just have to make sure the case is grounded and not connected to the "neutral", which would also be hot for a 240v line.
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Patrick
Sun Dec 12 2010, 07:17AM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
i suspect not. the magnetising conditions may be so different as to cause saturation or impedance differences.

but on the + side, im sure insulation wont be an issue
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radiotech
Sun Dec 12 2010, 07:58AM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
If you increase the size of the line fuses I imagine the core
winding of the variac rated at 140 volts running on 240 may output a square wave of 35 amps for the brief time the insulation is
smoking just before it catches fire and shorts out completely.

If you do this, please post a video.
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Dr. Slack
Sun Dec 12 2010, 08:14AM
Dr. Slack Registered Member #72 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:29AM
Location: UK St. Albans
Posts: 1659
No.

If a variac is meant for 140v, then you can only use it to 140. Well, OK, maybe 150 if you don't mind it starting to draw huge currents and get hot as it saturates like a MOT. But double is absolutely out of the question.

Now if you had asked 'it's rated for 20A, can I use for 40A for short duration?', the answer is Yes
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radiotech
Sun Dec 12 2010, 09:09PM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
Smoke has no place to hide in a Variac.


1292188137 2463 FT103140 Smokevariac
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Patrick
Sun Dec 12 2010, 11:32PM
Patrick Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639
so does overvoltaging cause:

first, the core to saturate
then, the impedence drops too low
next, inrush current rushes in
finnally, the overcurrent lights up the bon fire?

is this the failure mode or am i misguided?
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Mads Barnkob
Mon Dec 13 2010, 05:17AM
Mads Barnkob Registered Member #1403 Joined: Tue Mar 18 2008, 06:05PM
Location: Denmark, Odense C
Posts: 1968
Patrick wrote ...

so does overvoltaging cause:

first, the core to saturate
then, the impedence drops too low
next, inrush current rushes in
finnally, the overcurrent lights up the bon fire?

is this the failure mode or am i misguided?

next, inrush current rushes in
first, the core to saturate
then, the impedence drops too low
finnally, the overcurrent lights up the bon fire?
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radiotech
Mon Dec 13 2010, 09:38AM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
...the maximum inrush current.These relations are all based upon the fact that after the iron in a transformer is
sufficiently saturated, any increase in flux must be supported by the
air core inductance of the windings....and the crest value of
inrush current is ~~

Icrest = sqr(2E)/6,28FL) *2(2- (S/Bo))
E = RMS lnput voltage
L = inductance of winding without steel core
S= Saturation of steel i.e. 2T
Bo Flux density of normal operation i.e 1.2 T
edit oops left F out (frequency)
(Peter's formula)

the above lifted from Westinhouse
3rd ed 1944 Electrical Transmission and Distribution
Reference Book.
probably elsewhere, just happened to know it
was there
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Steve Conner
Mon Dec 13 2010, 10:46AM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
I just take the peak line voltage and divide by the winding's DC resistance for small transformers.
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radiotech
Mon Dec 13 2010, 11:08AM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
I agree with just R. This Westinghouse stuff is for gigantic
trransformers, and the other formula they give (Fahnoes)
includes resistance,and a bunch of other magnetic stuff
where units are operated far closer to saturation.
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