Welcome
Username or Email:

Password:


Missing Code




[ ]
[ ]
Online
  • Guests: 49
  • Members: 0
  • Newest Member: omjtest
  • Most ever online: 396
    Guests: 396, Members: 0 on 12 Jan : 12:51
Members Birthdays:
All today's birthdays', congrats!
Barry (70)
Snowcat (37)
wylie (43)


Next birthdays
02/01 Barry (70)
02/01 Snowcat (37)
02/01 wylie (43)
Contact
If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.


Special Thanks To:
  • Aaron Holmes
  • Aaron Wheeler
  • Adam Horden
  • Alan Scrimgeour
  • Andre
  • Andrew Haynes
  • Anonymous000
  • asabase
  • Austin Weil
  • barney
  • Barry
  • Bert Hickman
  • Bill Kukowski
  • Blitzorn
  • Brandon Paradelas
  • Bruce Bowling
  • BubeeMike
  • Byong Park
  • Cesiumsponge
  • Chris F.
  • Chris Hooper
  • Corey Worthington
  • Derek Woodroffe
  • Dalus
  • Dan Strother
  • Daniel Davis
  • Daniel Uhrenholt
  • datasheetarchive
  • Dave Billington
  • Dave Marshall
  • David F.
  • Dennis Rogers
  • drelectrix
  • Dr. John Gudenas
  • Dr. Spark
  • E.TexasTesla
  • eastvoltresearch
  • Eirik Taylor
  • Erik Dyakov
  • Erlend^SE
  • Finn Hammer
  • Firebug24k
  • GalliumMan
  • Gary Peterson
  • George Slade
  • GhostNull
  • Gordon Mcknight
  • Graham Armitage
  • Grant
  • GreySoul
  • Henry H
  • IamSmooth
  • In memory of Leo Powning
  • Jacob Cash
  • James Howells
  • James Pawson
  • Jeff Greenfield
  • Jeff Thomas
  • Jesse Frost
  • Jim Mitchell
  • jlr134
  • Joe Mastroianni
  • John Forcina
  • John Oberg
  • John Willcutt
  • Jon Newcomb
  • klugesmith
  • Leslie Wright
  • Lutz Hoffman
  • Mads Barnkob
  • Martin King
  • Mats Karlsson
  • Matt Gibson
  • Matthew Guidry
  • mbd
  • Michael D'Angelo
  • Mikkel
  • mileswaldron
  • mister_rf
  • Neil Foster
  • Nick de Smith
  • Nick Soroka
  • nicklenorp
  • Nik
  • Norman Stanley
  • Patrick Coleman
  • Paul Brodie
  • Paul Jordan
  • Paul Montgomery
  • Ped
  • Peter Krogen
  • Peter Terren
  • PhilGood
  • Richard Feldman
  • Robert Bush
  • Royce Bailey
  • Scott Fusare
  • Scott Newman
  • smiffy
  • Stella
  • Steven Busic
  • Steve Conner
  • Steve Jones
  • Steve Ward
  • Sulaiman
  • Thomas Coyle
  • Thomas A. Wallace
  • Thomas W
  • Timo
  • Torch
  • Ulf Jonsson
  • vasil
  • Vaxian
  • vladi mazzilli
  • wastehl
  • Weston
  • William Kim
  • William N.
  • William Stehl
  • Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Forums
4hv.org :: Forums :: Tesla Coils
« Previous topic | Next topic »   

SGTC Primary Peak Current Calculation

Move Thread LAN_403
ScotchTapeLord
Thu Oct 07 2010, 08:58PM Print
ScotchTapeLord Registered Member #1875 Joined: Sun Dec 21 2008, 06:36PM
Location:
Posts: 635
So lately I've been trying to figure out how to relate capacitor ratings to what's really going on in a SGTC.

To figure out the peak current experienced in the primary circuit, I've come up with the following:

Take a capacitor bank of 120nF charged to 14400V in a circuit with Fres= 40kHz.

I = (dv/dt)*C

so Imax = (dv/dt max) *C

dv/dt max occurs at t = 0 (well, just after, but effectively and mathematically, t=0)

so taking the equation as V = (14400)*sin(40000x)

dV/dt = 14400*40000*cos(40000x)

at x = 0, dV/dt max = 576*10^6 V/s = 576V/uS

Imax = 576 (V/uS) * .120 (uF) = 69.12 A.

Please tell me where I went wrong, as I know that peak currents are supposed to be quite high, and I haven't even factored in losses like the spark gap!

69A from a big ol' 120nF, 14.4kV capacitor? Is it because my math is wrong or because my Fres is so low? Thanks!

Though 14400*69.12 does suggest close to a megawatt of power, so I don't know!

I feel like there should be a pi or something in the math...

[EDIT]
should it be V = (14400)*sin(40000(2pi)x)
so that would make dV/dt max = 1152piV/uS = 3617.28V/uS

so C*(dv/dt) = 434A... Hey, that makes sense!

Is this right now?
[/EDIT]
Back to top
Luca
Thu Oct 07 2010, 10:10PM
Luca Registered Member #2481 Joined: Mon Nov 23 2009, 03:07PM
Location: ITALY
Posts: 134
Yes, you forgot 2*pi... wink

Luca
Back to top
monokel
Fri Oct 08 2010, 02:46PM
monokel Registered Member #2981 Joined: Thu Jul 08 2010, 01:47PM
Location: Germany
Posts: 35
343 A is right.

A simple formula is:
Imax = Vmax * sqrt(C / L)

( sqrt = square root ).
Vmax = initial charging voltage (14400 V).
C = MMC capacitance (120 nF)
L = inductance of primary coil; must be 132 µH in the example to obtain Fres=40 kHz.

Probably most MMCs would not be rated to the currents if a sinusoidal oscillation with that current would exist continuously. But the current gets quickly smaller after firing. Probably the RMS current (averaged over the time between two firing events) would be better suitable if you want to see whether it's OK for the MMC.
Back to top
Luca
Fri Oct 08 2010, 04:11PM
Luca Registered Member #2481 Joined: Mon Nov 23 2009, 03:07PM
Location: ITALY
Posts: 134
monokel wrote ...

Probably the RMS current (averaged over the time between two firing events) would be better suitable if you want to see whether it's OK for the MMC.

That is not exact...

Bot the rms and the peak current have to meet the maximum ratings. Usually, cap datasheets specifyy the maximum dV/dt (which tells you indirectly the maximum peak current) and the maximum rms current.

Regards,

Luca

Back to top
monokel
Fri Oct 08 2010, 04:38PM
monokel Registered Member #2981 Joined: Thu Jul 08 2010, 01:47PM
Location: Germany
Posts: 35
Luca wrote ...

Bot the rms and the peak current have to meet the maximum ratings. Usually, cap datasheets specifyy the maximum dV/dt (which tells you indirectly the maximum peak current) and the maximum rms current.

But if you take good capacitors the maximum dV/dt will absolutely be no problem. For example consider a MMC with WIMA FKP-1 220 nF, 1250 V DC.
http://www.wima.com/DE/WIMA_FKP_1.pdf

To get an allowed DC voltage of 15000 V DC you have to connect 12 of them in series (and, of course, some of these series connections parallel to get the desired capacitance). In the example of ScotchTapeLord the correct dv/dt (max) is 3619 V / µs. You have to divide by 12 to get the dv/dt of each WIMA cap, thus 3619 / 12 = 302 V / µs. Each WIMA cap is rated for a maximal dv/dt of 11000 V / µs, this is 36 times of the actual dv/dt.

Of course in smaller TCs with higher Fres the dv/dt will be higher. But these WIMA FKP-1 caps will be suitable regarding dv/dt up to Fres of 1 MHz.

Regards, monokel
Back to top
Luca
Fri Oct 08 2010, 09:33PM
Luca Registered Member #2481 Joined: Mon Nov 23 2009, 03:07PM
Location: ITALY
Posts: 134
monokel wrote ...

Each WIMA cap is rated for a maximal dv/dt of 11000 V / µs, this is 36 times of the actual dv/dt.


11000 V/uS??? This is a really high value... A similar cap (0.22uF 1200Vdc) of the well known 942C CDE series has "only" 2854V/us... Link2

In any case, I agree, usually the dv/dt is not a real limitation, while the rms max current is.

Regards

Luca
Back to top

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob

Go to:

Powered by e107 Forum System
 
Legal Information
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.