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Adam Munich

Sun Sept 05 2010, 10:22PM

Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

So an hour after I put up an add on craigslist (transformers wanted), I got an email from a guy who apparently had some neon transformers. So I then asked him where I could meet him. Expecting to pay dearly for a few transformers, I met him at a family dollar. Inside the back of his truck was a whole sh*tload of transformers. I asked him how much he wanted, and he said a buck a piece! I bought all 19. He also said he has 9 more he'll dig up for me.

So, here's what I got. They are all from the two best companies IMO; Actown and France. Made in USA.

4X 4,000V 30mA
4X 5,000V 30mA
2X 6,000V 30mA
3X 7,500V 30mA
4X 9,000V 30mA
2X 9,000V 60mA

The 60mA ones are supposedly GFCI protected according to the sticker, but they let me short them and draw arcs without a problem. I guess france is lying.

Now what do I do with them??
I intend this thread to be a discussion on what to do with these, and also a discussion about craigslist.

I know I know, pics or it didn't happen.

modularduck

Sun Sept 05 2010, 11:47PM

Registered Member #3094 Joined: Tue Aug 10 2010, 03:12AM
Location: portland, or
Posts: 30

THAT! AWESOME! i may have to take a better look up here and see what is to be had.

Adam Munich

Mon Sept 06 2010, 12:09AM

Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

Yeah, it's pretty sweet.

Upon closer examination of the labels, it seems that all the franceformers say "complies with secondary ground fault protection requirements in UL2161".

Now, I'm having a hard time believing they are sGFI for a couple of reasons...

#1, UL2161 allows an exception of the GFCI rule when the transformers have socket plugs, like these ones.

#2, I put the two supposedly protected 9kV60mA ones in //, and they have been arcing terminal to terminal for over 5 minutes now. I also tried arcing to case ground with nothing special. GFCI my *ss.

Yet still, the france website says they are protected. Funny, they don't shut off when arced to case ground!

Edit;
Let the records show that when the ground wire (green one) is not connected to earth, both Actown and Franceformer secondary GFCI's are impossible to trip, and thus may be suitable for TC use.

ScotchTapeLord

Mon Sept 06 2010, 02:26AM

Registered Member #1875 Joined: Sun Dec 21 2008, 06:36PM
Location:
Posts: 635

You're a lucky guy! I'm not sure what you can do with all of them, though, besides making a room full of Jacob's Ladders or reselling them... (*Let me know if you decide to do that!)

Maybe a few different projects, like a CW multiplier, a Marx generator, a TC, etc...

However, that still leaves a few untouched, even if you parallel the like ones!

Adam Munich

Mon Sept 06 2010, 03:31AM

Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

Well I could use the 4, 5, and 6kV ones to charge up MOC's when I find a whole bunch. I'll call some appliance places tomorrow and see what I can get. Rail gun anyone? [lol I wish.]

A CW multiplier wouldn't be too fun. These are 60Hz after all.

The 9KV 60mA ones I may build a big TC with, since it seems to be impossible to trip the GFCI.

Depending on what they guy has left, I may sell a few.

Xplorer

Mon Sept 06 2010, 08:52PM

Registered Member #2416 Joined: Sun Oct 04 2009, 04:23AM
Location: Oceanside, CA
Posts: 91

Nice catch!
I got 7 NSTs form my local neon sign shop, although not for as cheap as what you paid, and I was excited at first but I never knew what to do with them. I got 4 12/60s and 2 9/60s and a 9/30.

Craigslist is awesome. That's how I found my pole pig.

I'd just keep a few and sell and trade the rest. There is a pretty good demand for low power NSTs for first time TC-ers.

-Tony

Adam Munich

Mon Sept 06 2010, 09:41PM

Registered Member #2893 Joined: Tue Jun 01 2010, 09:25PM
Location: Cali-forn. i. a.
Posts: 2242

Okay. I'm pretty sure these do not have a GFCI. As I said before, the UL2161 allows an exception of the GFCI rule when no external wiring is used in the neon sign circuit. By looking at the install instructions of these x-formers, there is no wiring; the tubes plug right into the transformer. Also, when the rule is "broken", the formers are required to bear the RU symbol, and all of these do.

Plus, I haven't been able to get these to trip, even with the gound wire connected. So know we all know, if you find a ul2161 listed x-former with socket holes and the RU symbol, it has no GFCI. Tesla coils live on!

As for what to do with yours... Hook up all the 12/60's in // and draw an arc! I'm just about to hook up all my 9000v ones in // now.

Steve Conner

Tue Sept 07 2010, 01:21AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Don't these kinds of transformers have a floating secondary with no centre tap to ground? Maybe that's the ground fault protection.

With a floating secondary, you might still get an arc to case ground, but it would be a thin, weak one, because it's just fed through stray capacitance.

radiotech

Tue Sept 07 2010, 02:02AM

Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546

I believe the RU symbol means that the device in question may be used as an approved part in a product that bears an approvel label as an entire unit. i.e. a tube sign that plugs into the wall.

Here's a paper on nst GFCIs and where they sre at.

Xplorer

Tue Sept 07 2010, 05:22AM

Registered Member #2416 Joined: Sun Oct 04 2009, 04:23AM
Location: Oceanside, CA
Posts: 91

Grenadier wrote ...
As for what to do with yours... Hook up all the 12/60's in // and draw an arc! I'm just about to hook up all my 9000v ones in // now.

I've done that.
Nice long arcs! It makes a hell of a ladder.
But I already get 14kv at half an amp from my pole pig.

Even if you're sure they don't have GFIs test them with a TC cap and a spark gap. If they can handle that then they're surly good to go.

-Tony

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