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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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Suggestions for cabling

 1 2 3 4 
Move Thread LAN_403
doctor electrons
Mon Jul 19 2010, 09:33PM
doctor electrons Registered Member #2390 Joined: Sat Sept 26 2009, 02:04PM
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Posts: 381
If you want a quick guide to wire ampacity and temperature ratings you can pick up a copy of
"Uglys" electrical reference. You can find it at Home Depot, or online cheaper i would imagine.
The tables it contains are from the NEC or National Electric Code book. It will also have the tables for
derating wire by ambient air temperature and insulation type. I took a peek at a chunk of scrap 0awg
today and its temperature rating was 105c. However, it was hi temp cable. Heres the dirt straight from the NEC big black
2008 code book.

Table 310.17 Allowable ampacities if single-insulated conductors rated 0-2000 volts in free air, based on ambient air temperature of 30c (86f)
1/0 type uf,tw 195 amps
1/0 type rhw,thhw,thw,thwn,xhhw,zw rated 75c (167f) 230 amps
As you can see the insulation affects the ampacity at temperature. The welding cable you have probably has the marking USE on it, stands
for underground service entrance. If this is the case.....
Copper, 1/0 (1 aught or zero guage) marked USE or USE-2 with a 90c temp rating has an ampacity of 260 amps.
According to the chart you should be fine, unless your temp is higher than 90c. There is a table for that as well. For example, above 80c for
this cable you would derate by multiplying the ampacity by 0.41 .. If you know the exact temp give me the number and i can tell you exactly
what to use.
(edit) At the end there, i said derating for temps above 90c then i said, "For example, above 80c". That was not an error, it is exactly as the code book reads.
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radiotech
Tue Jul 20 2010, 01:20AM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
Perhaps you should re-examine this to see if the transformer could be moved closer to the apparatus simplifying the terminal/wire issues.
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coillah
Wed Jul 21 2010, 10:30PM
coillah Registered Member #1517 Joined: Wed Jun 04 2008, 06:55AM
Location: Chico CA
Posts: 304
It is sitting directly below the port. The only thing to be done is raising the xfrmr to the port, I would still need to connect the xfrmr to the feedthrough studs.
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radiotech
Thu Jul 22 2010, 06:12AM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
You could use short tinned braided copper straps slipped into a
a teflon sleeve if necessary. Cars use this to connect the negative battery to engine block for starterr so will have ample ampacity for your app.

like this material Link2
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MinorityCarrier
Thu Jul 22 2010, 03:51PM
MinorityCarrier Registered Member #2123 Joined: Sat May 16 2009, 03:10AM
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 312
Be aware that what you evaporate from your heated boat will coat the vacuum chamber walls, the pump foreline and get into the pump itself.
Use of a cooled foreline sieve to protect the pump, and perhaps having quartz lamps inside the vacuum chamber to heat the chamber walls might be considered.
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coillah
Thu Jul 22 2010, 05:36PM
coillah Registered Member #1517 Joined: Wed Jun 04 2008, 06:55AM
Location: Chico CA
Posts: 304
doctor electrons wrote ...

If you want a quick guide to wire ampacity and temperature ratings you can pick up a copy of
"Uglys" electrical reference. You can find it at Home Depot, or online cheaper i would imagine.
The tables it contains are from the NEC or National Electric Code book. It will also have the tables for
derating wire by ambient air temperature and insulation type. I took a peek at a chunk of scrap 0awg
today and its temperature rating was 105c. However, it was hi temp cable. Heres the dirt straight from the NEC big black
2008 code book.

Table 310.17 Allowable ampacities if single-insulated conductors rated 0-2000 volts in free air, based on ambient air temperature of 30c (86f)
1/0 type uf,tw 195 amps
1/0 type rhw,thhw,thw,thwn,xhhw,zw rated 75c (167f) 230 amps
As you can see the insulation affects the ampacity at temperature. The welding cable you have probably has the marking USE on it, stands
for underground service entrance. If this is the case.....
Copper, 1/0 (1 aught or zero guage) marked USE or USE-2 with a 90c temp rating has an ampacity of 260 amps.
According to the chart you should be fine, unless your temp is higher than 90c. There is a table for that as well. For example, above 80c for
this cable you would derate by multiplying the ampacity by 0.41 .. If you know the exact temp give me the number and i can tell you exactly
what to use.
(edit) At the end there, i said derating for temps above 90c then i said, "For example, above 80c". That was not an error, it is exactly as the code book reads.


The problem with me giving you the temp is I have no idea how drastic the heat feedback will be. I am thinking about figuring out a way to water cool the feedthroughs... Again I have no idea how this will really work :)

MinorityCarrier wrote ...

Be aware that what you evaporate from your heated boat will coat the vacuum chamber walls, the pump foreline and get into the pump itself.
Use of a cooled foreline sieve to protect the pump, and perhaps having quartz lamps inside the vacuum chamber to heat the chamber walls might be considered.

Yes I am aware of this fact. I would like to get a baffle but our budget prohibits us from doing that right now. I will probably be looking into how we can accomplish that before too long.


I still have yet to order the welding cable. I will post some pictures of the chamber a little later today so you guys can see just how badass it is.
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doctor electrons
Thu Jul 22 2010, 09:26PM
doctor electrons Registered Member #2390 Joined: Sat Sept 26 2009, 02:04PM
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Posts: 381
Maybe you can have a friend machine some lugs for the welding cables with a heatsink machined into it, we have done
it before at my job.
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coillah
Thu Jul 22 2010, 10:09PM
coillah Registered Member #1517 Joined: Wed Jun 04 2008, 06:55AM
Location: Chico CA
Posts: 304
That is a good idea!

I have been looking around, it looks like there isn't much concern for heat feedback unless you are running 1000A or so. I am only shooting for 150. I think the welding cable will do it. I just have to get some beefy lugs now.
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coillah
Thu Jul 22 2010, 11:27PM
coillah Registered Member #1517 Joined: Wed Jun 04 2008, 06:55AM
Location: Chico CA
Posts: 304
Here's a pic of my chamber I am building.


1279841224 1517 FT92744 My Senior Project Is Better Than Yours
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radiotech
Fri Jul 23 2010, 12:18AM
radiotech Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546
I just have to get some beefy lugs now.

Or use a flat bar on copper 3/16 x 1 x 2 inches. Drill a 3/4" hole at one end and 3/8 hole at the other. Standard lugs for your cable have a 3/8" stud size. Use a 3/8 x 3/4 bolt
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