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Registered Member #96
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062
um.. guys.. Is it just me or do these need to be taken off the market sooner rather than later on the grounds of public safety?
I'm all in favour of letting people with safety knowledge handle high power lasers indoors in a controlled environment with the appropriate safety equipment but allowing such high power devices to be sold openly is asking for a total ban the second there is an "incident" which will only serve to give the Govt another reason to hassle us electronics hobbyists.
the other problem it seems is that no matter how restrictive the laws there will always be idiots who misuse these useful tools. case in point in the UK laser incidents have actually gone *up* since the pointer ban, as it has become a status symbol among youngsters.
Maybe we need a public education campaign as well..
Registered Member #2261
Joined: Mon Aug 03 2009, 01:19AM
Location: London, UK
Posts: 581
These are the 445nm laser diodes from the 'Casio Green Slim Projector' which can apparently be pushed from the usual 0.5W to 1W, presumably with a shorter life expectancy. I'm sure more powerful devices can be expected in future projectors.
Registered Member #56
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
It is already illegal to sell them, wickedlasers simply does not follow the rules (in the laser communities its estimated they have already netted close to if not over $1 million in sales of these pointers!).
I have no issues with the sale of the diodes themselves, but anyone that mounts one running at full power in a laser pointer deserves to be blinded. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out in the end, but I suspect something bad will happen. A number of people that are in the laser show business have begun contacting casio, and a number of stores have said the projector has been discontinued. That doesn't do anything for the huge number of diodes out there, and some people have already been contacted by 3rd parties selling the diodes that were not extracted from the projector, so it is probably safe to say that the cat is out of the bag and there isn't much that can be done about it at this point, short perhaps of informing law enforcement of the dangers and telling them to confiscate illegal high power pointers (like that will happen...)
@hazmat, the diodes are run at 2.25W at a 30% duty cycle in the projector, people have been running them for days at 1w output power, and I am starting a burnin at 2w continuous with no signs of distress.
Registered Member #96
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062
hmm.
i get nervous just using my <100mW diode(s) even with goggles, anything that can burn through plastic deserves respect and proper safety precautions.
Being a component rather than a finished product at least means that your average script kiddie will probably fry the diode trying to power it.. a series resistor wouldn't help as they go into thermal runaway very quickly so the hazard would be more ready made modules (such as the WL ones)
we should probably do the right thing and restrict these diodes to "if you get one, fine but don't sell or trade it" category. I wouldn't like to see 4HV get in trouble because someone sold one of these on and it resulted in a serious eye injury.
Registered Member #1408
Joined: Fri Mar 21 2008, 03:49PM
Location: Oracle, AZ
Posts: 679
Just my opinion alone but the only problem I see with this is the marketing to children & this agenda really makes me angry.
This is a tool for heaven's sake! An individual could do some pretty drastic damage with a meat cleaver, claw hammer, or a gallon of gasoline. It is the marketing agenda that is an issue. The same would be true if one were to sell razor box cutters designed as cartoon figurines. Tesla coils should be prohibited because they have the potential to harm? Of course not. But a Tesla Coil designed as a cartoon figure would present a potential for mis-use by those to whom it is interned to be sold.
The idea of "protecting the public from itself" has always been a failure and generally creates a "nanny-state" mentality that moves people away from personal responsibility. This then displays itself in rulings by courts that plaintiff can sue the restaurant for spilling hot coffee on her lap or the burglar can sue a homeowner because he fell through the roof while breaking into the home and other agenda where personal responsibility is askew.
The OBJECT is not to blame for mis-use; the booze is not to blame for alcoholism, the soil is not to blame for dirty pants. When we do so, we continue anthropomorphizing the object, giving it more credit for thinking that the biped with a brain who made it.
The jerk who developed the marketing for this laser should have a some time alone to check his morals but the firm who actually implemented his marketing scheme should be held to public ridicule.
Registered Member #902
Joined: Sun Jul 15 2007, 08:17PM
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 1042
quicksilver wrote ...
Just my opinion alone but the only problem I see with this is the marketing to children.
This is a tool for heaven's sake! An individual could do some pretty drastic damage with a meat cleaver, claw hammer, or a gallon of gasoline. It is the marketing agenda that is an issue. The same would be true if one were to sell razor box cutters designed as cartoon figurines. Tesla coils should be prohibited because they have the potential to harm? Of course not. But a Tesla Coil designed as a cartoon figure would present a potential for mis-use by those to whom it is interned to be sold.
The idea of "protecting the public from itself" has always been a failure and generally creates a "nanny-state" mentality that moves people away from personal responsibility. This then displays itself in rulings by courts that plaintiff can sue the restaurant for spilling hot coffee on her lap or the burglar can sue a homeowner because he fell through the roof while breaking into the home and other agenda where personal responsibility is askew.
The OBJECT is not to blame for mis-use; the booze is not to blame for alcoholism, the soil is not to blame for dirty pants. When we do so, we continue anthropomorphizing the object, giving it more credit for thinking that the biped with a brain who made it.
I agree - this society has become dependent on the government to stop potential hazards for them. it should be common sense that homemaking illegal fireworks is both dangerous and illegal, but no. People do it anyways and therefore stop us legitimate hobbyists from gaining access to the chemicals reasonably without an Explosive;s License even if we are not making explosives!
I was at a Ham Fest this past weekend and they had a 150 mW laser present and people were trying it out. A kid was testing it, and I made sure he knew how dangerous it was and he seemed to understand. Then, while testing it, he brings it barely above head level into a crow of people and is rapidly moving it around, a recipe for blindness. When I tried to tell him he was shining it too low he seemed completely dumbfounded!
common sense is not so common, and us who have it must sacrifice because of it!
Registered Member #1667
Joined: Sat Aug 30 2008, 09:57PM
Location:
Posts: 374
quicksilver wrote ... The idea of "protecting the public from itself" has always been a failure and generally creates a "nanny-state" mentality that moves people away from personal responsibility.
Yes and no. Driving with alcohol in your system is prohibited by people do it anyway, putting their own and others' lives at risk and causing many deaths. As to the implication towards the creation of an authoritarian state I'd rather put the blame on people in power that either don't know better than prohibiting specific goods or try extend control in the pretence of preventive measures.
If you think back a few months, September 2009 to be more precise, there have been several cases of guys pointing their fancy green laser pointer at airplanes (german article:
Several cases also occured in the States,
wrote ... Last year, penalties under the Civil Aviation Act for shining laser beams at aircraft were increased to two years' jail and fines of up to $30,000.
Australian and International Pilots Association general manager Peter Somerville said pilots wanted authorities to crack down on the lasers.
"These devices should be banned. There is no need for them. It is beyond stupid to point these at planes," he said. "We need to better co-ordinate with police so they can catch them in the act."
The reaction is always the same: an expression of a lack of understanding, followed by the demand to prohibit said items. This is like taking pain killers to fight cancer and the consequences are obvious: equipment is more likely to get into the wrong hands. Imagine youtube throwing out all the pointless balloon popping, tape cutting and match lighting videos that create the impression that lasers are *sooo* cool, would that help? Yes, perhaps, but I'd rather trade censorship for responsible thinking.
There are far more important things to be taken care of than hyped tech components. Interest in strong lasers will recede gradually. Apart from that, there are strict regulations in many countries that regulate buying/selling and operation of lasers. Oh and best of all: chance always has a fair amount of misfortune for everyone. People that are irresponsible end up with permanent blindness, years in jail or severe charges when they mess with lasers in the same ways they eventually find out that their little boy accidently shot himself with the gun lying around outside the cupboard.
As stated above "this society has become dependent on the government to stop potential hazards for them" should in my opinion rather be expressed in the way that "... people have all-too-willingly given away responsibility for their own actions". You don't set your neighbour's house on fire with gasoline, nor do you kill him with a kitchen knife, both are still readily available despite many incidents. because people have no problem grasping the purpose. The correct approach would be to educate people about the purpose, applications and dangers of lasers and in want for anyone better to call on this, I'd say this is our job.
Forum members are experimenting with tesla coils, cap banks, high power electromagnetic radiation, x-ray sources and radioactive samples (and of course lasers!) so it is time to treat high power solid state lasers in the same way and there will be no need to prohibit trading even high power blue lasers.
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Unwise marketing and sale of dangerous high power lasers..
