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Registered Member #938
Joined: Sat Aug 04 2007, 05:39AM
Location: Honokaa,HI,USA
Posts: 65
I have tinkered with HV when I was around 14 or so for a year or two, it was really interesting and throughout the years I've done some HV reading here and there but have not got around to HV for a long time. Anyways fast forward until I'm 17, now I'd like to do another flyback for the heck of it, and maybe drive a tesla coil with it if I can... Where do i go about buying a flyback that will work well? Can I drive a "modern" flyback and get something out of it?
Registered Member #882
Joined: Sat Jul 07 2007, 04:32AM
Location:
Posts: 103
The reason hobbyists dislike modern flybacks is because they output DC rather than AC, which restricts the projects you can use it for (no plasma globes ). You can still produce a variety of arcs, sparks and corona though, depending on how you drive it. Search the forum for "flyback driver" or "mazzili driver" for ideas, and check out the HvWiki page about flybacks.
As for using it in a tesla coil, It has been done, but the results are lackluster due to the low powerlevels ( < 250watts ).
Got no purchasing advice, sorry. The only flyback I've had I got from a trinitron monitor that died on me.
Registered Member #639
Joined: Wed Apr 11 2007, 09:09PM
Location: The Netherlands, Herkenbosch
Posts: 512
Get an old CRT monitor with a modern flyback. Those have diodes embedded in them. This allows them to be used for teslacoils. An old flyback that doesn't have a diode produces high frequency AC and thus charges and discharges your capacitor in a SGTC very fast. Because this is done so fast your spark gap will never exceed it's breakdown voltage and won't fire.
So make sure you have a flyback with a diode in there. A always extract them from pcb's with a gas torch or paint burner.
Like Wylie stated look for driver circuits on the forum and google.
Registered Member #1408
Joined: Fri Mar 21 2008, 03:49PM
Location: Oracle, AZ
Posts: 679
Old style CRT (tube type) monitors and TV's are VERY common right now due to the popularity of flat screen designs. You'll find that stuff for free - IF you look. You can always buy one at a salvage place, etc. It's a good idea to TRY to unsolder the board. It's slower, sure, but you won't expose many items to too much heat. There are a LOT of useful parts in a monitor or TV.....saves a lot of money....
There are a great many sources for HV parts. Once you learn them you can keep an eye out for anything that is free and the hobby becomes that much cheaper and fun. Sources include: Monitors/TV's, laser printers & SOME higher quality ink jets, Neon sign shops (ask politely for old transformers; I once got 7 really nice ones that way), Microwave ovens (they have both HV transformers and solid state units: LOTS of free parts there as everyone throws them out. Plasma screen TV's or signs, NOTE: the bigger the TV or monitor the more chance of getting really nice HV parts!. Welders, both MIG and stick units, air conditioning units, some stoves (ignition systems), just about ANY radar, sonar, or X-Ray unit....the sources are incredible. You can make a part-time hobby out of collecting some really wonderful HV parts and full units (laser printers, etc) which may come in handy later. Plus people will always trade things that you may want for things you have pulled together.
Registered Member #938
Joined: Sat Aug 04 2007, 05:39AM
Location: Honokaa,HI,USA
Posts: 65
wylie wrote ...
The reason hobbyists dislike modern flybacks is because they output DC rather than AC, which restricts the projects you can use it for (no plasma globes ). You can still produce a variety of arcs, sparks and corona though, depending on how you drive it. Search the forum for "flyback driver" or "mazzili driver" for ideas, and check out the HvWiki page about flybacks.
As for using it in a tesla coil, It has been done, but the results are lackluster due to the low powerlevels ( < 250watts ).
Got no purchasing advice, sorry. The only flyback I've had I got from a trinitron monitor that died on me.
I remember when I had the flyback I could do a plasma globe with just a light bulb :) I'm rather cautious with things at first because I'm not that familiar with them, there are some basics I'm knowledgeable of however in the end I consider myself new to HV. I did own a tesla coil a few years back, I think it was around 120KV. The NST and the Cap bank was somewhat scary, I'd as a start be happy with a weak tesla coil to build some confidence.
Dalus wrote ...
Get an old CRT monitor with a modern flyback. Those have diodes embedded in them. This allows them to be used for teslacoils. An old flyback that doesn't have a diode produces high frequency AC and thus charges and discharges your capacitor in a SGTC very fast. Because this is done so fast your spark gap will never exceed it's breakdown voltage and won't fire.
So make sure you have a flyback with a diode in there. A always extract them from pcb's with a gas torch or paint burner.
Like Wylie stated look for driver circuits on the forum and google.
Looking forward to see you building your coil.
Thanks for the advice I'll start getting stuff together for one, Neon sign transformers in some ways scare me, and I prefer something more controlled for now..... I'll look into a calculator to get an idea of the gauge of the secondary, how many winds, the primary, the capacitors and such.... Although driving a flyback would be the first step to all of this.
quicksilver wrote ...
Old style CRT (tube type) monitors and TV's are VERY common right now due to the popularity of flat screen designs. You'll find that stuff for free - IF you look. You can always buy one at a salvage place, etc. It's a good idea to TRY to unsolder the board. It's slower, sure, but you won't expose many items to too much heat. There are a LOT of useful parts in a monitor or TV.....saves a lot of money....
There are a great many sources for HV parts. Once you learn them you can keep an eye out for anything that is free and the hobby becomes that much cheaper and fun. Sources include: Monitors/TV's, laser printers & SOME higher quality ink jets, Neon sign shops (ask politely for old transformers; I once got 7 really nice ones that way), Microwave ovens (they have both HV transformers and solid state units: LOTS of free parts there as everyone throws them out. Plasma screen TV's or signs, NOTE: the bigger the TV or monitor the more chance of getting really nice HV parts!. Welders, both MIG and stick units, air conditioning units, some stoves (ignition systems), just about ANY radar, sonar, or X-Ray unit....the sources are incredible. You can make a part-time hobby out of collecting some really wonderful HV parts and full units (laser printers, etc) which may come in handy later. Plus people will always trade things that you may want for things you have pulled together.
A good portion of what you are mentioning is viable right now, however the higher current and voltage supplies like are something I am rather hesitant to touch right now. In the future some of that would be interesting to experiment with but for now with 5 siblings in the house that are much younger than me I can't have much within the more serious category of HV.
Registered Member #1408
Joined: Fri Mar 21 2008, 03:49PM
Location: Oracle, AZ
Posts: 679
Quote -JOSH: "A good portion of what you are mentioning is viable right now,however the higher current and voltage supplies like are something I am rather hesitant to touch right now. In the future some of that would be interesting to experiment with but for now with 5 siblings in the house that are much younger than me I can't have much within the more serious category of HV."
*******************
That's a good & healthy thing that you know you're not invulnerable & you have limits to what you feel comfortable with. MANY people don't know their own limits and attempt to do things that carry with it a "one mistake is too many" agenda. Being responsible toward your siblings shows a great deal of character & maturity.
I suggest that you continue to amass a good collection of items and when you feel confident at whatever level, you build what gives you a learning (& fun) scenario. I also suggest that you read as much as you can on HV safety so that as your horizons broaden, you will know what's comfortable for you to experiment with and HOW TO KEEP IT SAFE from little children, pets and the curious. For the most part, flyback experimentation can be fairly safe due in part to lower current. What's more, since they need a driver to make them function, there is a built-in safety element in that they need to be connected correctly. Building a variety of LOPT drivers offers a good learning agenda and if kept separate; cannot harm curious little hands. The same applies to a TC with no power source hooked up.
Registered Member #938
Joined: Sat Aug 04 2007, 05:39AM
Location: Honokaa,HI,USA
Posts: 65
"For the most part, flyback experimentation can be fairly safe due in part to lower current. What's more, since they need a driver to make them function, there is a built-in safety element in that they need to be connected correctly. Building a variety of LOPT drivers offers a good learning agenda and if kept separate; cannot harm curious little hands. The same applies to a TC with no power source hooked up." Exactly :)
Registered Member #938
Joined: Sat Aug 04 2007, 05:39AM
Location: Honokaa,HI,USA
Posts: 65
What should I use to power this? Last time around I borrowed the lead acid battery from the DIY solar eletric fence charger but in this case I don't have anything like that laying around. Would a say 12 volt 4 amp laptop charger work or would the HV fry it? Would I be better off with like a small lead acid battery and a charger for it? I've got a flyback in hand I salvaged just need to buy a few2n3055 ,resistors and protoboard... I might give a ZVS a shot after this.
Registered Member #2838
Joined: Fri Apr 30 2010, 07:55PM
Location: tehachapi, CA
Posts: 333
Good luck with the zvs flyback and a tesla coil. I have been messing around with it for a while and cannot seem to get it right. I have been able to power a light bulb "plasma globe" and get some good streamers to arc onto my hand but that is about it... No visible streamers into the air... But don't give up. Check out this great zvs tesla that I found on youtube. This would be my ultimate goal with the mazilli design. If you figure out how to achieve this, i would be vary interested in the schematics! I have asked the poster but have not received a responce.
FYI, be careful with the light bulbs! I was told that using a smaller bulb can result in some unwanted x-rays! To my understanding if you start to see corona saturating the outer portion of the glass you should get a larger bulb.
Registered Member #882
Joined: Sat Jul 07 2007, 04:32AM
Location:
Posts: 103
I personally like using AT/ATX supplies, out of convenience mainly: i have plenty of them, builtin overcurrent protection, decent voltage regulation. The downside is that you wont get more than 150-200W out of the 12v rail without modding or unless you happen to have a "500W", or Bigger, PSU sitting around.
I see plenty of people using batteries, automotive and golfcart lead-acid types mostly. Just make sure you discharge them according to the type, ie: dont over-discharge a car battery and dont draw too high a peak current from a deep-discharge type. Charging them properly is just as important. Plenty of info out-there about how to handle the different types.
As for that circuit that uses a 2n3055: All its really good for is killing 2n3055's. The single-switch topology creates a large inductive spike and the voltage ratings on the 2n3055 are just too low: driving a coil with a mere 12v can easily result in a couple-hundred-volts of back-emf across the switch when it turns off. Look-up "Inductive Kickback". Using a higher "Vce" BJT or higher "Vds" FET will save you some frustration, money, and dead-silicon.
Search this board for "2n3055", there is a WORLD of commentary on that circuit.
I was told that using a smaller bulb can result in some unwanted x-rays!
Is it possible to accelerate electrons hard enough to achieve ANY x-rays without a decent vacuum? I thought the argon/nitrogen fill of the typical lightbulb prevented that; the electrons are too busy colliding with and heating the plasma. Plus, in the lightbulb-plasma-globe example, the electricity is AC so the electrons are accelerated back-and-forth, further increasing their chances of colliding with the plasma before striking either the glass or the filament.
/armchair-particle-physicist-off
I'd love for any of our resident radiologists to weigh in on the subject.
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Flyback Question
). You can still produce a variety of arcs, sparks and corona though, depending on how you drive it. Search the forum for "flyback driver" or "mazzili driver" for ideas, and check out the HvWiki 
