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Need idea for SGTC

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tulkas

Tue May 18 2010, 11:15AM

Registered Member #2865 Joined: Tue May 18 2010, 10:59AM
Location: persia
Posts: 37

HI .(my first language isn't english)
recently i've completed my second secondary coil .(i have 2 secondary 1 : 1736 of 0.25mm magnet wire & 2 : 1955 of 0.20 mm of magnet wire .)
so can i make a magnifier ?(or my idea ; 1st : i will build my first full coil | 2nd: i will connect a wire from top of my toroid to the primary of my second coil and connect the other side of primary to RF ground.)
what is your idea ?

quicksilver

Tue May 18 2010, 01:38PM

Registered Member #1408 Joined: Fri Mar 21 2008, 03:49PM
Location: Oracle, AZ
Posts: 679

1st off congratulations & welcome to 4HV. I may suggest that you search and look at the many designs herein of SCTC. Some amazingly unique designs have been tried and are often successful.

People here have made Tesla coils that are horizontal & have two toroid each end, they have made designs of spark gap that bring a greater effective to a mid sized coil, they have experimented with things that may be just what you are looking for.

You plan on connecting two Tesla Coils correct? If so you may want to ask yourself why use a physical means such as a wire? Are you attempting to power one coil with the power supply of the other?

tulkas

Tue May 18 2010, 03:50PM

Registered Member #2865 Joined: Tue May 18 2010, 10:59AM
Location: persia
Posts: 37

well i think pictures talks better :
these are 2 pics that says what i have in mind(first one is better i think)
which one is going to work?

ScotchTapeLord

Tue May 18 2010, 04:36PM

Registered Member #1875 Joined: Sun Dec 21 2008, 06:36PM
Location:
Posts: 635

Unfortunately that will not work as you want it to... It appears you want to cascade tesla coils, which will not work with such a loosely coupled system.
To put it simply, the "second primary" will be a dead short. It would draw as much power as it could and almost all of it would go into heating the first coil, with a negligible amount coupling to the second secondary. And tuning a system like this would be darn near impossible, anyway. A primary is a low impedance load. Tesla coils secondaries are for high impedance loads- like air!

A magnifier does not work well because there are more coils, and therefore more voltage, but rather that it keeps (most) of the high voltage caused by the currents across the highly inductive tertiary coil (V=IR) so that the primary can be closer and better coupled to the magnifier secondary. From what you describe, you don't seem to have a suitable coil for a magnifier secondary, because they use relatively fewer turns of thicker wire.

But that's okay! The coils you have will make a great Neon Sign Transformer destroyer! And maybe if you include some safety designs like a filter and safety spark gap, a great Tesla Coil!

And this is the part where the people who know what they're talking to tell you what to do. Make sure you listen to them.

tulkas

Wed May 19 2010, 05:13AM

Registered Member #2865 Joined: Tue May 18 2010, 10:59AM
Location: persia
Posts: 37

you mean that there isn't any available magnifier projects with my 2 coils?
both ideas not going to work ?
and i used 3mm enameled copper wire for primary instead of copper tubing . is it wrong ?

Steve Conner

Wed May 19 2010, 09:06AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

If you have two secondaries, and you want to make something freaky, you could try stacking them. Connect the top of one to the bottom of the next one, so you have one big tall coil.

I don't guarantee that this would work better than just using one of the coils.

ScotchTapeLord

Wed May 19 2010, 09:38AM

Registered Member #1875 Joined: Sun Dec 21 2008, 06:36PM
Location:
Posts: 635

tulkas wrote ...

you mean that there isn't any available magnifier projects with my 2 coils?
both ideas not going to work ?
and i used 3mm enameled copper wire for primary instead of copper tubing . is it wrong ?

1. Correct. There are just too many turns and too much inductance. You could try Steve's idea. The two together should produce more voltage but will also raise losses. I think it would be worth comparing the two together versus one alone.

2. Correct. When you finish your first coil and start to understand how it works, you will understand the practical reasons why.

3. I'm almost certain 3mm is rather thin for the level of power you probably want. If you have a lot of this wire and don't want to buy copper tubing, you could try paralleling several strands... but almost everyone uses tubing. The people who have chosen to use wire use very thick gauge.

Herr Zapp

Wed May 19 2010, 01:59PM

Registered Member #480 Joined: Thu Jul 06 2006, 07:08PM
Location: North America
Posts: 644

SCT wrote:

" I'm almost certain 3mm is rather thin for the level of power you probably want. If you have a lot of this wire and don't want to buy copper tubing, you could try paralleling several strands... but almost everyone uses tubing. The people who have chosen to use wire use very thick gauge."

Tulkas didn't tell us anything about the power level of his system, only that he intends to use a 12KV NST. His 3mm dia primary wire (~.1/8") is more than adequate for a 30ma NST and will work just fine with a 60ma NST. Solid wire "works" as well as tubing, it's just a bit harder to wind unless it is fully annealed, and doesn't make quite as efficient use of copper as tubing does because high-frequency currents travel primarily in the outer portion of the conductor, and the core carries very little current ("skin effect").

Regards,
Herr Zapp

ScotchTapeLord

Wed May 19 2010, 02:24PM

Registered Member #1875 Joined: Sun Dec 21 2008, 06:36PM
Location:
Posts: 635

Sorry about that. Listen to Zapp.

I guess there's no reason that wire wouldn't work. I thought maybe the RMS current would create an issue.

Hard to get one's mind out of DRSSTC mode. :)

teravolt

Wed May 19 2010, 07:32PM

Registered Member #195 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 08:27PM
Location: Berkeley, ca.
Posts: 1111

hi tulkas, usaly magnefiers have a tesla made with hevy gauge like 10 awg with a small field shaper on top and that feeds whats called the extra coil wich is basicly a tesla regular tesla secondary. the extra coil is base fed. the idia is that the extra coil is fed with a low impedance at the bottom. the exra coil is suported away from the ground plain and made to be self resonant with its own toride. hope that helps.

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