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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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Spark spectroscopy

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Steve Conner
Tue May 11 2010, 11:07AM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
I'm going to guess copper. Link2
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IntraWinding
Tue May 11 2010, 11:18AM
IntraWinding Registered Member #2261 Joined: Mon Aug 03 2009, 01:19AM
Location: London, UK
Posts: 581
The green dots are some extra wavelengths generated only in the gas near that electrode.

I'm sure this is wrong, but as a wild guess after a quick Google: Spark discharge in balloon gas Helium with strong NeFeB magnets as electrodes?

The near continuum in the background indicates the gas is impure.

Alan
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Tesladownunder
Tue May 11 2010, 11:31AM
Tesladownunder Registered Member #10 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 09:45AM
Location: Bunbury, Australia
Posts: 1424
Steve McConner wrote ...

I'm going to guess copper. Link2
Steve applies the KISS (Keep it simple, stupid!) principle successfully. My electrodes are most likely to be copper of course.

Copper has spectral lines in the green at 5100,5150 and 5220 A respectively. This arc is a capacitative discharge and hence very brief. There is little time for ions from the electrode to transport far along the arc channel. The green dots are copper excitation and the rest of the spectrum is air ionisation of nitrogen, oxygen etc.

So who can tell me what was the other electrode? Not copper. I recognised the metal from the spectrum but didn't understand until I looked more closely at my setupand worked it out. The spectrum is most clearly seen in the oblique view.

1273577347 10 FT88931 Hvsparkspectrumzoomtriplet
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Arcstarter
Tue May 11 2010, 09:43PM
Arcstarter Registered Member #1225 Joined: Sat Jan 12 2008, 01:24AM
Location: Beaumont, Texas, USA
Posts: 2253
Steve applies the KISS (Keep it simple, stupid!) principle successfully. My electrodes are most likely to be copper of course.

Knowing you, i figured it would be something really extraordinary... D'oh! *pets Steve and throws an animal cracker to him*
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Electroholic
Wed May 12 2010, 02:43AM
Electroholic Registered Member #191 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 02:01AM
Location: Esbjerg Denmark
Posts: 720
maybe some zinc from the brass electrode i'm guessing?
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IntraWinding
Wed May 12 2010, 08:54AM
IntraWinding Registered Member #2261 Joined: Mon Aug 03 2009, 01:19AM
Location: London, UK
Posts: 581
Is there a winkprize?
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Tesladownunder
Wed May 12 2010, 09:20AM
Tesladownunder Registered Member #10 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 09:45AM
Location: Bunbury, Australia
Posts: 1424
The spark hit the galvanised bolt supports. (galvanised = zinc coated)
I recognised the zinc "blue triplet" seen on low res spectrscopy.
Note that it can't be brass because no copper was present. (Brass = copper 63% and zinc 37%.)

The prize surely is the knowledge gained by all about household metal identification. But I could post you a cookie from Australia....

I might set up a slit with a black background so I can do other wider light sources.
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Conundrum
Wed May 12 2010, 06:42PM
Conundrum Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062
Who'd have thought two razor blades would have worked..
Hehe...

Memo to self, build one of these using the remains of a shaver blade refill and a piece of that "flexible" DVD I rescued out of a pop magazine.

-A

"B"$!$£" said Pooh, as his VT220 terminal lost sync...
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Tesladownunder
Thu May 13 2010, 12:39AM
Tesladownunder Registered Member #10 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 09:45AM
Location: Bunbury, Australia
Posts: 1424
Note that I didn't use a razorblade slit for the spectral pics I showed here. The spark is thin enough so that only the camera rainbow filter is needed. A broader light source would blur out though.



1273711152 10 FT88931 Hvsparkspectroscopyrainbowfilterclose

1273711152 10 FT88931 Hvsparkspectroscopyrainbowfilterhalogen
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iJim
Thu May 13 2010, 03:58PM
iJim Registered Member #2662 Joined: Fri Jan 29 2010, 10:14AM
Location:
Posts: 36
I do a little spectroscopy on plasmas...

When looking at a low energy corona discharge in dry air (a few cm from the electrode) the spectrum is dominated with Nitrogen emission. More specifically, the Nitrogen second positive series... there's a small emission from N2+ at 391nm and NO below 300nm however you need a better spectrometer to see these. There's little in the visible and IR regions, oxygen normally emits 777nm & 844nm. The emission near the electrodes will look different, especially near the cathode! Arc plasmas have considerable continuum radiation and excited metal lines, as observed in your spectrum... quite interesting really!


1273766187 2662 FT88931 Air Plasma
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