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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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wristwatch sized geiger?

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Proud Mary
Wed Nov 25 2009, 11:06PM
Proud Mary Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992
Conundrum wrote ...

Very interesting.. wasn't aware of the calibration issue.

would a smoke alarm chip work? these sense ridiculously small leakage currents...

I have now acquired some small geiger tubes (tested using a personal alarm as the stepup, worked fine) unfortunately this draws too much power. However during my experimentation noticed that an ultrabright LED in series with the tube (with parallel 100K resistor) flashed in time with the counts.

Could simplify the driver circuit as just need to epoxy any old surplus red water clear LED to the sanded down "detector", and coat the whole thing in black paint. Totally immune to interference and directly drives a micro's IO pin.
(tested with an infrared LED as the sensor)

Which brings me back to that pesky inverter circuit.
Someone else suggested using a piezo transformer from a dead laptop inverter (total overkill but they draw hardly any current and have the advantage of being directly driveable from any micro output) followed by a rectifier and seriesed zeners.

just needs a micro feedback loop to keep the thing stable, and maybe a PIN large area diode for backup in case the geiger gets saturated.

Interesting to note that pyrolytic graphite + off the shelf cheap CMOS camera = instant alpha detector. You need to cleave the PG down to as thin as possible then flour sandpaper down until the thickness of mica.
Works well.

-A


You can also connect a pea neon in series with a GM tube such that it flashes during each conduction event, but you have to get the tube voltage just right for it to work well. The pea neon can also form the transmitter in an opto-isolation circuit, such that there is no connection at all between the HV circuitry and the signal conditioners after it.

GM tubes always need 'compensation' to give a reasonably linear response - else they may over count by as much as a factor of ten in a great hump centred around roughly 60keV, when their sensitivity begins to decline again. Compensation is usually done by means of one or more metal foils, such as tin foil, bismuth foil etc, into which is a slot is sometimes cut out to allow some radiation to bypass the compensation filter.

Failure to understand this very non-linear energy response often leads folk to vastly over-estimate the amount of x-rays coming from a tube, for example.

A second type of compensation needed for quality instruments is so called 'dead time compensation' - immediately after the tube has conducted there is a recovery time in the microsecond range, so that it will be insensitive to particle strikes during that interval. In fast counting, the amount of particles arriving in the dead time will become significant, and needs to be accounted for in calibration.

As for using a CCD chip for alpha counting, Plazmatron once told me that (unsurprisingly) this destroys the pixels.
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plazmatron
Wed Nov 25 2009, 11:21PM
plazmatron Registered Member #1134 Joined: Tue Nov 20 2007, 04:39PM
Location: Bonnie Scotland
Posts: 351
Polimaster makes geiger counter watches!

The originals used gas filled tubes, but I am pretty sure the recent version uses a pin diode.

There is a keychain radiation monitor, that will measure radiation in excess of 100mR/hr.
This uses a CdS photocell, looking at a scintillator screen. I read somewhere that the screen had to be periodically illuminated with an LED, in order to compensate for temperature variations.

Les
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MinorityCarrier
Thu Nov 26 2009, 06:13AM
MinorityCarrier Registered Member #2123 Joined: Sat May 16 2009, 03:10AM
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 312
Not wrist-watch sized, but close, cell-phone sized. The gieger tube is at the end of the pencil tip.








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