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(OT) This is why drive by wire is bad

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Conundrum

Wed Feb 24 2010, 07:50AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4061

What... the.. ???!!!!

Yet another example of the guilty (Toyota) stamping on the innocent.
We actually had a fatal accident here that questions were asked about possible recall on similar vehicles
(in this case not the recalled model but it introduced reasonable doubt)

If you ask me, there should be a worldwide recall of *all* Toyotas even if there is only a possibility of a problem. What price human life?

#include "alwayscommentyourcode.h"

hboy007

Wed Feb 24 2010, 12:47PM

Registered Member #1667 Joined: Sat Aug 30 2008, 09:57PM
Location:
Posts: 374

Conundrum wrote ...
What price human life?

Ask the guys who take it, e.g. your government. Depending on what people we are talking about it comes down to a houndred bucks to a few millions. Sorry, I could not resist. Check out this TIME article for further reading

There are even better ones, stating "Research published on June 15 shows that the price of taking away a human life in Baghdad is currently US$2.40."

Sorry for the off-topic. Back to Topic: your link seems to be broken.

Bjørn

Thu Feb 25 2010, 09:36AM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

Well over a million people are killed each year in traffic. If people drove slower the number would be reduced to a fraction. So why are you not telling people to stop driving instead of concentrating on some possible fault of no significance?

Dave Marshall

Thu Feb 25 2010, 04:26PM

Registered Member #16 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:22PM
Location: New Wilmington, PA
Posts: 554

I have to agree. I drive one of the affected models, an '08 Tundra, and I don't worry a bit. There have been so far 3 or 4 confirmed deaths associated with the fault that I know of. There area few dozen that have come out of the woodwork since the recall of course, because everyone wants their chunk of change. Their claims are dubious at the moment. Now, people with Toyota vehicles 10 years out of the recall date are complaining about sudden acceleration. They see a way to absolve themselves of responsibility for some crash they caused, and maybe a pay day as well. The thing that really pisses me off about that fact is some of the people claiming this were driving cars old enough that they didn't have drive-by-wire. They were mechanical throttles.

Compare this to the 43,000 people killed in the US every year in traffic accidents of all causes. Lets say all ~30 claims that were initially reported by the NTSB are verified, you're talking about .06% of US traffic deaths. Except those 30 deaths were spread out over 5 years. So now you're talking about approximately .01% annually.

You're approximately 4,000 times more likely to be killed by either driving drunk yourself, or being struck by a drunk driver than you are by this malfunction. Even weighting it for just Toyota owners affected by the recall, you're still ~100 times more likely to die because of alcohol. Where is the media blitz about the dangers of stupidity behind the wheel? Where is the consumer outrage aimed at the drunks who endanger their lives? Where are the lawsuits against the alcohol companies, the auto manufacturers, the police? There aren't any, because people already know about drunk driving, and the media hasn't come up with a novel way to scare the hell out of the public with it.

Yes Toyota used a less than ideal component to save a little money. Manufacturers the world over do it daily. In this case, a tiny percentage of these components are failing in an unexpected way. It happens. People die from faulty equipment every day. The only thing that makes this news worthy at all isn't the number of deaths, but the number of vehicles Toyota installed this component in. Big numbers scare people.

This is no different then the jackasses in the media and government that pushed the panic button about Swine Flu. All of the panic and gnashing of teeth, and...surprise! It's mortality is almost identical to the same strains of influenza humans have been catching every winter back into perpetuity.

I'll keep driving my Toyota happily. I'll get it in to get the recall work done some time this spring, and then, this fall, I'll buy a new Toyota; because they are, statistically *still* some of the safest and most reliable cars on the road. I'll keep ignoring the national news media, because they're a crowd of lying, backstabbing, fear mongering, smut peddling scum with nothing but financial interest at heart. You'd be well advised to do the same.

Carl Sagan is spinning in his grave so fast, he's apt to strike oil.

EDIT: I should also point out that the sudden acceleration has nothing to do with software or the computer system. It is entirely a mechanical failure caused by excessive friction between two hard plastic surfaces in the accelerator pedal assembly. As such, I'm moving this to Chatting.

-Dave

101111

Thu Feb 25 2010, 05:35PM

Registered Member #575 Joined: Sun Mar 11 2007, 04:00AM
Location: Norway
Posts: 263

BjÃ¸rn wrote ...

Well over a million people are killed each year in traffic. If people drove slower the number would be reduced to a fraction.

I just want to point out that this is not necessarily true some statistic shows that accidents can occur because some are driving too slow and this but the hole "system" out of balance.
And as already mentioned many of the accidents fault is intoxication by alcohol or drugs.

klugesmith

Thu Feb 25 2010, 05:42PM

Registered Member #2099 Joined: Wed Apr 29 2009, 12:22AM
Location: Los Altos, California
Posts: 1716

I'm with Bjorn and Dave here. Much public hysteria, just like 20 years ago when some Audi models were in the news for "sudden acceleration" mishaps. Back then, no technical fault was ever found -- I think the "victims" had accidentally stepped on the wrong pedal.

Agreed that many late-model Toyotas have a defect that can, in rare cases, make the throttle control linkage get sticky. I am dismayed (but hardly surprised) that so many people think their cars are very unsafe, and should be towed to the dealer for the recall service! They should be reminded of universal remedies: use the brake, drop cell phone without hesitation and shift the car out of gear, etc.

Avalanche

Thu Feb 25 2010, 07:45PM

Registered Member #103 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:16PM
Location: Derby, UK
Posts: 845

If I knew my car had some defect that could possibly cause the throttle to stick, I wouldn't want to drive it! This is after it happened to me before in my old car, when the throttle pedal went through a hole in the carpet (!) I was able to stop the car once I realised what had happened, but there was a certain period of 'wtf' before I did anything, and this was plenty of time for me to hit something in front of me had I not reacted quickly enough. Unfortunately a large percentage of people would just panic and not act quickly enough, and this is what we see from the article above

HV Enthusiast

Fri Feb 26 2010, 01:14PM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068

Drive by wire is not the problem.

The real problem is Drive by Brain. Thats the weak link in the entire control system.

GhostlyFigures

Fri Feb 26 2010, 02:38PM

Registered Member #2385 Joined: Thu Sept 24 2009, 01:26AM
Location: Waxhaw, North Carolina (Or Charlotte near UNCC)
Posts: 26

The funny thing is --- the actual probelm with the toyotas is the computer control system that tells the throttle to open or close, not the wiring. I know some guys who have to work on these cars and they said toyota really doesn't have a fix for the computer yet so they're just sending out parts to make people happy. Hopefully/eventually they will resolve the issue and as for the old toyotas, those things are solid machines until you run them with old oil lol.

GhostlyFigures

Fri Feb 26 2010, 02:40PM

Registered Member #2385 Joined: Thu Sept 24 2009, 01:26AM
Location: Waxhaw, North Carolina (Or Charlotte near UNCC)
Posts: 26

oh and by the way, drivers cause more accidents driving slow then the drivers who drive above the speed limit. really the safe thing to do is get everybody to lean defensive driving and only let people above a certain IQ drive :)

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