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Negative Ion Generator suggestions?

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LAN_403

Meatball

Sat Jan 30 2010, 01:05AM

Registered Member #2401 Joined: Mon Sept 28 2009, 04:25PM
Location:
Posts: 74

I'm trying to power this ion generator,

With a car power inverter. The generator is simply a diode, capacitor stack... I'm pretty sure anyways...

I'm using a 75 watt inverter, since the generator is powered by straight mains.

My goal is to walk around with this setup attached and concealed. This will leave me charged up. With the flip of a switch, I want to be able to shock grounded object for some nice sparks that come from "no where".... The whole idea is similar to this project:

I'm currently using two 12V lantern batteries in parallel to supply power.

Though when I power it all up... I'm not getting hardly anything from the generator. I checked the inverter's voltage, and the batteries voltage during operation, and its all sufficient, but nothing from the generator... I can't even get any good sparks from it while grounding it!

Though... here's the weird part. Whenever I'm holding the generator's output, I can touch the heatsink on the inverter... and get a nice 7000VDC zap! I can literally hold my finger 3mm away from the heatsink and get a continuous arc. Why am I getting 7K from the inverter heatsink?? The heatsink appears to be completely isolated from every other component in the circuit. I can't even get the generator to arc to Earth ground, only to the heatsink.

Note: The in-line fuse to the inverter is rated 15A...

How do I get this circuit up and running?

I really appreciate any input.

Inverter:
20942 1230974297310 1317690211 30603819 2825354 N

20942 1230974297310 1317690211 30603819 2825354 N

Lantern Batteries:
20942 1230974337311 1317690211 30603820 7656683 N

-Tyler

Sulaiman

Sat Jan 30 2010, 08:52AM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140

I feel I need to comment, the 'circuit' that you're following uses a small 9V battery ... light and fairly safe.
You are carrying SERIOUS battery power - not a good idea where people may 'accidentally' get an electric shock.

You need to consider the complete path of circuits involved to understand why one part or other seems 'live'. Consider how each part is connected to each other and the overall high-voltage path.
If you can't do this, you really shouldn't be doing what you plan to.

Steve Conner

Sat Jan 30 2010, 10:00AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

+1 on Sulaiman's reply... Think about it some more! (Is any part of your battery powered circuit connected to Earth? A complete circuit is needed for electric current to flow, and that normally means TWO connections.)

Meatball

Sat Jan 30 2010, 10:36PM

Registered Member #2401 Joined: Mon Sept 28 2009, 04:25PM
Location:
Posts: 74

Thanks guys.

The ion generator I have works great when plugged into the wall. The generator itself is not grounded, and will make a cute little static arcs to Earth ground when plugged into the wall. Two pin only... not the 3 pin grounded. Plus my inverter runs off of AC... not DC current. No grounded is needed for static discharges.

When I try the same thing off the inverter, its the same setup. Two prongs of 120VAC in (not grounded). But from the batteries and inverter, The generator will not even arc to Earth ground at all. No static zaps on anything that I touch when I'm holding it..

I'm not following anyone else's circuit... just the idea.

I just need to replicate what happens from mains power (ungrounded), with battery power (ungrounded).

This is only for static discharge of course... nothing harmful by any means.

I figured that the more 12V, current capacity I could give the inverter, the better. And since the inverter needs at least 6 amps to run at 75 watts... I thought I was under- powering my inverter.

I still haven't a very clear idea... other than that I heard most inverters are square- wave instead of sine- wave. Could this be the problem?

radiotech

Sun Jan 31 2010, 01:50AM

Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546

If on the inverter , it fails to work, even when you ground one of the inverter's 110 volt pins, try connecting a 7.5 watt incandescent lightbulb (cheap nightlight) (dont us an EL or LED type) in parallel with the inverters plug- use a cubetap 3 way or its ilk.

If this works let your body be the ground by connecting one of the 120 volt pins to a computer techs wriststrap (make sure it has a resistor in it. Then to be a source of sparks, wear a tinfoil vest over a dry wool sweater not connected to your body,, but rather to the ion spikes. People will have to touch you to get sparks. Not wise to approach a cop with a tazer.

Turkey9

Sun Jan 31 2010, 02:23AM

Registered Member #1451 Joined: Wed Apr 23 2008, 03:48AM
Location: Boulder, Co
Posts: 661

It the normal A/C power, two plug, there is a grounded wire. One wire is "live" and the other wire is "neutral". The neutral is connected to earth ground at the breaker box. This means that there is indeed a connection to earth ground when you connect your ion generator to the wall. The ground plug is just there to add extra safety and a fast return to earth ground for shorts.

I'm guessing that your heatsink is connected to a ground plane on the circuit board and can act like the return. Try drawing an arc to the negative power supply of the ion generator.. Or connect the negative power lead to earth ground to ground the hole thing.

Meatball

Sun Jan 31 2010, 05:42AM

Registered Member #2401 Joined: Mon Sept 28 2009, 04:25PM
Location:
Posts: 74

Hey all, I really appreciate your help so far!

I haven't a bulb to test with... However,

I've been testing other points that discharge through my finger when I hold the HV out wire.

The negative and positive terminals of the battery are great points to arc to, and when I ground the negative terminal of the battery the arcs become more intense when I touch the negative terminal.

I've attached a potential setup of what might work, except I'm just having trouble picturing why it might work.

I was hoping that while the HV out was attached to me, and if the negative terminal were grounded, that I would be able to discharge on ungrounded objects.. like doorknobs etc...

20942 1231921520990 1317690211 30605813 6183082 N

20942 1231921520990 1317690211 30605813 6183082 N

Unfortunately, It does not seem to work...

Somehow I will have to have the object touching the battery's negative terminal, while I was statically charged. So far, this will not be possible.

I thought that if the HV out were attached to me, I would become statically charged, and would be able to discharge on anything that had potential between me and the object... but for now it seems, the object must be touching my negative battery terminal..

I wonder how to work around this.

Thank again everyone for any more suggestions!

-Tyler

Turkey9

Sun Jan 31 2010, 06:16AM

Registered Member #1451 Joined: Wed Apr 23 2008, 03:48AM
Location: Boulder, Co
Posts: 661

I think the only way to discharge to an ungrounded object is to have it in an RF field. Think sstc. That way the object is charged from the field. I don 't think that it'll work with your setup as it is DC. Plus, RF can be dangerous.

radiotech

Sun Jan 31 2010, 07:14AM

Registered Member #2463 Joined: Wed Nov 11 2009, 03:49AM
Location:
Posts: 1546

I think you want to duplicate walking on carpet, getting charged, and touching things metalic to draw a spark. see this;
Gilbert,W Electricity and Magnetism,Macmillan, (for the United States Armed Forces Institute) War Dept. Washington 1944.

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