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tesla spark jump

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microfracture

Thu Dec 03 2009, 08:10AM

$microfracture$ Registered Member #2498 Joined: Thu Dec 03 2009, 07:47AM
Location:
Posts: 4

hello,

i am looking for someone that can help me test an idea i have that involves very high voltages.
it involves a tesla coil, and 2 or more neutral conductive materials. the question goes: if i have a high voltage source at one end of the room and 2 or more conductive materials (not grounded) placed a distance apart but close enough to the coil as to cause a discharge to one, will the charge "jump" to the other conductors N to a ground? im going on the idea that the distance between the first conductor and the coil are less than that of the path of least resistance to the earth.

questions: do the conductors have to be positively/negatively charged?
does the initial voltage require an exponential increase to jump to an additional conductor?

thank you to all that help,
microfracture

ps, i attached an illustration to help clarify.

doctor electrons

Fri Dec 04 2009, 12:17AM

Registered Member #2390 Joined: Sat Sept 26 2009, 02:04PM
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Posts: 381

The arc will attempt to find the best path to ground, no matter what path it has to take. If there are 2 objects between the coil and ground (easiest path) then yes, it will jump them. Only if the distance between them is not greater than the amount of dielectric (in this case air) the voltage can break.
If for some reason it could strike the first object and find a better path to ground than the second, it will. I believe for your test to work conditions would have to be near perfect. In "theory" if it had no alternative path but through these objects; you could coax the voltage to the second by having a higher resistance to ground at the first object than the resistance to the second object, and then to ground. I hope that makes sense. Also, depending on the situation "neutral" is most often a grounded conductor. The ground is a second "back up" if you will, for safety. Neutral typically means the return, or path to ground, for the charge. Again that depends on the situation. Hope that helps!

microfracture

Mon Dec 07 2009, 11:37AM

$microfracture$ Registered Member #2498 Joined: Thu Dec 03 2009, 07:47AM
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Posts: 4

whoops, when i said neutral i really meant was no initial charge.

hrm, the test was to try and see is if you could have, at one point, pellets or "shot" in the air at one time close enough together as to direct a charge to a target. one question i had was: can you launch the shot before trying to coax the charge across? or do we have a charge ready before the shot is fired? again im trying to "draw" a path of least resistance as to direct a charge to a target.

maybe the propellant gas or fuel particles following the shot through the air (like a comet tail does) can be a dielectric to aid in voltage breakdown. ie, breaks down easier than air.

throw me some ideas if you have any.

Dr. Slack

Mon Dec 07 2009, 01:46PM

Registered Member #72 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:29AM
Location: UK St. Albans
Posts: 1659

A demonstration of the effect I think you're after was performed at the 2008 Nottingham Gaussfest, see this link on Derek's site for pictures.

Paul Bennem's coil was set up with a long string of CDs between the topload and ground. See the picture "arcs via a strip of CDs" about 3/4 down (on my browser the image appeared at tthe top of the page when the thumbnail was clicked)

Fraggle

Mon Dec 07 2009, 04:15PM

Registered Member #1526 Joined: Mon Jun 09 2008, 12:56AM
Location: UK
Posts: 216

On mythbusters they fired a water pistol from within a skeletal top load and the streamers followed it. Pretty cool actually.

microfracture

Tue Dec 08 2009, 09:58AM

$microfracture$ Registered Member #2498 Joined: Thu Dec 03 2009, 07:47AM
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Posts: 4

so the idea is correct, right?

i ask because taking the time to calibrate BB guns to fire off in a pattern and an arc to fire in synchronization will take a lot of time and money.
don't want to waste.

got this idea watching district 9 of all things. could be used as a military tactic to disable large vehicles, but you would need to get close. :/

Dr. Slack

Wed Dec 09 2009, 11:09AM

Registered Member #72 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:29AM
Location: UK St. Albans
Posts: 1659

If a spark can jump (say) 1m in free air, then it will jump something like a total of 1m of gaps between conductive objects.

However, if there's a shorter more attractive path nearby, it will jump that.

This means that for practical setups, your conductor-seeded path will need to be mostly conductor, rather than mostly gap, if the spark is to be guided consistently along the conductors. A water-pistol stream acheives this, as does a row of 5" diameter CDs one inch apart. However, you will need exquisite engineering to get a stream of BBs to be mostly conductor (which is a polite way of saying you can't do it). Under ideal circumstances, a BB in a long gap will have a trendeedncy to route the discharge through it, but I suspect the tendency will be so small as to be impossible to demonstrate.

People often use fine wires to guide discharges. I have seen a picture of what the builder called a "marx cannon", which used a stack of caps the size of a (US) fridge, and fine wire channel seeding which could probably knock out a vehicle. I've spent 30s searching here and google generally for marx cannon with no luck, perhaps more persistance or a few more key words may turn it up, or if anybody knows a link to the picture I'm talking about? <edit> Ah! Try "taser cannon" <\edit>

uzzors2k

Wed Dec 09 2009, 05:41PM

Registered Member #95 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:57PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 1308

110,000 volt Lorentz Gun

microfracture

Wed Dec 09 2009, 10:53PM

$microfracture$ Registered Member #2498 Joined: Thu Dec 03 2009, 07:47AM
Location:
Posts: 4

awww balls someone beat me to the punch :/

teravolt

Thu Dec 10 2009, 05:53AM

Registered Member #195 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 08:27PM
Location: Berkeley, ca.
Posts: 1111

I also saw on a technoshow how they had a large tesla and it was connected to a plastic tube that had argon gas piped through it to create a conductive chanel through the air. they were sum what sucssesfull. it would be a cool expieriment to try

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