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HP's Billing & Warranty Practices: Buyer Beware

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Dave Marshall

Fri Apr 03 2009, 06:11PM

Registered Member #16 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:22PM
Location: New Wilmington, PA
Posts: 554

I have to vent. I've spent the last 2 weeks embroiled in a throw-down with HP over both their warranty repair practices, and their underhanded billing practices. I sincerely hope that this is an isolated incident, but I dealt with enough people on their end that I suspect it's company wide. I personally will never recommend HP to anyone again, nor will I ever do business with them unless they manage to come to their senses and make things right (maybe when their managers finally check their ******* voicemail). Below is the entire narrative I wrote, and the photos will be included in a seperate post.

The case number HP assigned is 3605246986, just in case anyone thinks I'm blowing smoke here.

- Dave

****************************************

Iâ€™m a long time HP customer. 4 Laptops, 1 desktop, 6 years, all HP. Iâ€™m in the Air Force, and have deployed 8 times with their laptops. Iâ€™ve beaten the hell out of them, and theyâ€™ve kept right on ticking. Iâ€™ve worked with their customer service several times and been very satisfied. Iâ€™ve recommended them to my friends and family, and a number of customers for my small PC repair business. I was a very loyal customer.

All good things come to an end, I suppose. What follows is a narrative of the last two weeks, during which Iâ€™ve spent more than 4 hours on the phone with HP reps in India and the US. Five calls in total, including 2 unanswered messages left for supervisors when it became apparent that the customer service representatives were unable to help.

My wife purchased an HP 2133 netbook in July, 2008, for me while I was deployed to the Middle East. It appeared to be a well built, stylish, sufficiently capable model, and I just couldnâ€™t say no to something so portable. This was before the Atom processor came out, and at the time the 2133 was the best out there. I paid a premium for it though. $700, nearly twice its closest competitor. Right out of the box from the factory, the hard drive was dead. My wife sent it back to the factory, it was promptly repaired and returned to her free of charge. One point in the win column for HP.

My wife shipped it to me and I loved it, but it had its flaws. Within 2 days of receiving it I noticed that the keyboard which all the reviews raved about was causing superficial scratches on the clear plastic shield HP smartly installed over the screen. I wasnâ€™t particularly concerned; the laptop was still perfectly usable. The aforementioned shield was just a bit of glossy plastic that protected the LCD assembly and the speakers.

It performed admirably over the next 6 months. During the trip back to the states, I had my first real trouble. Approximately 200 dead pixels appeared on the screen in the shape of a circular outline in the center of the screen, about the size of a golf ball. The laptop was fine when it went into its hard carrying case, and was broken when removed a few hours later. It never moved from the airline seat beside me, and never left the case. There was nothing else in the case with it. I stowed the laptop with the intention of sending it in for repairs on returning home.

When I arrived home and turned it on, I noticed that the dead pixels had moved. Previously dead pixels worked, and previously working pixels were dead, but the number of affected pixels remained about the same. A couple days later, before lodging a complaint, I fired it up and noticed most of the dead pixels had turned blue or purple. There was hope! I ran one of those â€˜pixel massagerâ€™ programs that rapidly changed the colors for about 24 hours, and sure enough, the problem vanished. I chalked it up to a random glitch and went merrily on my way.

Fast forward a month. I called HP for the first time. The scratches on the screen had grown more pronounced, and still lined up perfectly with the keyboard. I called them in hopes of having them look into replacing the cheap plastic shield. I didnâ€™t really expect it would be covered under warranty, but thought Iâ€™d at least try my luck. I asked the Rep in India (Sam, I believe was his pseudonym) if there would be a charge, and he assured me that there wouldnâ€™t be unless the repair was determined to be out-of-warranty. I was on my way out of town for vacation the next day, so he said to call back after I returned home and he would send the overnight box.

During the ensuing two week vacation, the laptop developed a short in the power supply, and at virtually the same time, the dead pixels came back, this time to stay. They still moved around, but wouldnâ€™t go away. On returning home, I called HP back and informed them of the new problems. I again asked if there would be a charge for service, and was again informed by the Indian tech support rep that there would be only if I wanted the damage repaired and it was out-of-warranty. I did a quick eBay search and determined it would cost me about $80 to repair the screen myself, so that would be my ceiling if they came back with a hugely inflated repair estimate (plus a bit, perhaps a total of $150 to pay for preserving the remaining 4 months of the warranty)

I sent the laptop in, and a few days later was sent an email informing me that the entire LCD was determined to be out of warranty due to the aforementioned superficial scratches (which in no way affected the actual LCD assembly). The bill was a staggering $440. They determined the power supply problem to be in-warranty and said it would be repaired at no charge regardless of my decision on the screen.

I was very disappointed that they had determined that the scratches on a snap-on plastic cover (caused by their own faulty design) constituted accidental damage, and it soured my opinion of HP somewhat, but what really set me off was the paragraph at the bottom of the email in small print stating that if I chose not to have the repairs done, I would be charged an $89 â€˜evaluation feeâ€™. I had specifically asked about such fees, and had been told there wouldnâ€™t be any. It was Tuesday, and they gave me 5 business days to make a determination before they would return the laptop to me (repairing only the power supply) and â€˜invoiceâ€™ me the $90. Making it even worse is that they would have had to â€˜evaluateâ€™ it anyway for the in-warranty repair on the power supply. I was expected to pay for the privilege of being told my screen was broken. Well no kidding.

I was contacted a couple days later (Thursday) by an HP rep (American, amazingly!) asking about my decision on the screen repairs. I informed her that I disputed their determination on the screen, that the dead pixels and the scratches were not accidental; that they were component failure and/or design flaws, and that I was also extremely angry about the fee being assessed, in my opinion, fraudulently.

She was polite, despite me being rather short with her, and promised to get photos from the service center and contact me the next day at the latest. She completely sidestepped the issue of the evaluation fee. I received no photos, and was not contacted again until 4 days later (the following Monday) when I hit the deadline for making a decision. I was livid.

I informed the rep (again American, but a different woman) of my dispute. She extended my deadline to the following Friday. In the course of our conversation, I told her that there should be photos from the service center in my file. She said there was a photo, and that it had been forwarded to me the previous Thursday (it had not). She again sent the photos, which I finally received, and again sidestepped the issue of the evaluation fee. After she repeated the same line that â€œHP does not do partial repairsâ€ (referring I guess to repairing the broken LCD without replacing the scratched shield?), I demanded a transfer to a supervisor. I left a message for him. After hearing nothing the next day, I called them back and left a second message for a supervisor.

That Friday, as the deadline again approached, I was again contacted by a representative (not a supervisor). She was unaware of my messages left for the supervisor. She would not discuss in any way my dispute of the damage, repeating several times that I should have sent the laptop in within the first 30 days for the scratches, I guess referring to their 30 day â€œno questions asked returns/exchangeâ€ policy. When informed (a second time, the first rep was also told) that I had spent the first 6 months in the middle of the Arabian desert a long way from the nearest Fedex location, and with almost zero telephone access (aside from the two 15 minute calls per week I was permitted to speak to my family), her response was â€œSorry, but I canâ€™t do anything about thatâ€. Even if I had been able to send it in from my location, by the time I received it after the first trip back to the factory and the 2 week transit time between the US and troops in the Middle East, the 30 days would have long expired. When cornered regarding the evaluation fee, she said that it must have been a â€˜miscommunicationâ€™ with their Indian service reps (seems that should be their problem, not mine) and that the fee was not disputable (wanna bet?). By now I was so angry I was shaking. I informed them that as far as I was concerned this was at the very best, fraud, and at the very worst, extortion (Send us a little money, or send us a lot of money, but send us money). I wouldnâ€™t have sent the laptop in at all if I had known about the fee, as I could have repaired it myself cheaper. I was way beyond ever doing business with or recommending HP again. I informed them that they could keep the laptop (the â€˜evaluation feeâ€™ plus the cost of the part on eBay was more than half the cost of a new, superior, netbook from their competitors), stuff the fees, and that they could rest assured theyâ€™d never hear from me or my customers again.

As of writing this (12 hours after the final phone conversation) Iâ€™ve heard nothing further from HP. 6 days later, still no contact from the supervisor. I expect theyâ€™ll keep the laptop, refurbish it, and sell it, recouping their costs several times over. I also expect theyâ€™ll just pretend nothing happened, and hope I cool off or at the very least, shut up. If they have the guts to send the laptop back unrepaired and bill me regardless, Iâ€™ll involve the BBB. If theyâ€™re feeling really ballsy and bill the credit card they have on file for me (from the purchase of the laptop), Iâ€™ll file charges and let my bank and the authorities sort it out.

I didnâ€™t want a new laptop. I wasnâ€™t even looking for free repairs. I just wanted them to make good on their promise that there wouldnâ€™t be any fees if I declined the repairs, and return my laptop to me. This entire operation smacked of the â€˜customers are ignorant and will hand over their visa card quietlyâ€™ attitude that has taken over the PC industry. Iâ€™m not ignorant. Iâ€™ve been in the industry 10 years, and I like to think Iâ€™m pretty darn handy with a soldering iron. The nature and evolution of these faults pointed pretty conclusively to hardware failure, and aside from the scratches on the screen, the laptop was in pristine condition. That much should have been appallingly evident to even the most inexperienced service technician.

Ah the great things you can expect for your hard earned money and years of customer loyalty.

Dave Marshall

Fri Apr 03 2009, 06:53PM

Registered Member #16 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:22PM
Location: New Wilmington, PA
Posts: 554

This is a screen cap of a powerpoint slide (supposedly) sent to me by HP after my first conversation with the Service Representative. The annotations on the photo are theirs not mine. I actually didn't receive this until several days later, but that's neither here nor there.

Apparently they feel that it supports their refusal to service the screen under the warranty. I wish the photo was a little better quality, but if you look at a photo of the front of an HP 2133 you'll see that plastic shield covers the entire front of the computer, and not just the LCM. It is removable and easily replaced. Their annotation regarding the keyboard impression was *exactly* my complaint. The scratches grew steadily worse from day 1, and happened despite me treating it very carefully and always keeping it in a padded case or briefcase when transporting it. They have yet to answer my demand for an actual explanation as to why those scratches are pertinent to a component that has no physical connection to it. The screen is pristine except for those railroad track looking scratches. The other smudges and such on the screen are just that. Finger prints and lint.

A second photo they sent in the same powerpoint presentation. I'm not sure what point they were trying to make with it, except to point out that keyboard is pristine, and has not been modified, damaged, or abused in any way. Can you say "Design Flaw"?

-Dave

Steve Conner

Fri Apr 03 2009, 07:28PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Oh noes! Sounds like a nightmare

I'm convinced that a lot of corps adopt a stonewall approach to customer and warranty service these days. They just try and make the product not break, and if one does break, the service department are under orders to hide until the customer gives up and goes away. Once customers get used to this level of service, the CEO will just fire everyone in the service department, outsource the phone support to India, and give himself another bonus.

From a bean counter's perspective, the perfect product is one where all the parts wear out simultaneously the day after the warranty expires.

Conundrum

Fri Apr 03 2009, 08:03PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062

have had screen issues caused by bad RAM before, as most have shared memory this can happen.

HV Enthusiast

Sat Apr 04 2009, 01:30PM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068

wrote ...

From a bean counter's perspective, the perfect product is one where all the parts wear out simultaneously the day after the warranty expires.

Nah! The perfect product has parts that sequentially fail after the warranty runs out. If all the parts wore out at the same time, it would be most cost effective for the buyer to buy a complete new unit (less profit for manufacturer) whereas if parts sequentially wear out, the end user would be forced to repair their item little by little which adds lots of profits in labor and parts for the manufacturer!

ragnar

Sat Apr 04 2009, 01:39PM

Registered Member #63 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425

Dave, I'm sorry to hear of your experiences. My HP 2133 has been performing well for seven months now, with all-day use. As you describe, they're not cheap, and I had very high expectations. The only disappointments to date have been:

- legends wearing off 'function' key and 'end' key (programmer; no surprise)
- left and right screen speaker connections failing
- phantom dead/green pixel that showed up but has resolved for now

Having read your story, I'd hesitate to send it in for the speaker connections which could be fixed at home quite trivially, but I fear for the warranty!

I trashed my HP oscilloscope for a Fluke long ago.

Renesis

Sat Apr 04 2009, 04:59PM

Registered Member #2028 Joined: Mon Mar 16 2009, 08:13PM
Location: Norway
Posts: 319

Well, if you found this experience traumatic, imagine how stuff like this works out for us noobs. I have way too little experience with computers, so when it breaks down i am left completely in the service dude's mercy.

Dave Marshall

Sat Apr 04 2009, 09:11PM

Registered Member #16 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:22PM
Location: New Wilmington, PA
Posts: 554

For all the good being 'in the know' did me here. I was screwed to just the same degree. They didn't get any more of my money, but they did get the laptop, which I now have to replace.

You can bet it won't be an HP.

-Dave

Dave Marshall

Mon Apr 06 2009, 08:46PM

Registered Member #16 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 02:22PM
Location: New Wilmington, PA
Posts: 554

An interesting update. HP sent my laptop back to me with only the power supply repaired, but with no invoice in the box, no email contact, and no phone call. Either they got smart and waived the questionable fee, or they will mail the invoice separately. I guess I'll just wait and see.

Had I been home when it arrived, I would have refused to accept delivery until they assured me that they weren't going to charge me.

Dave

rp181

Mon Apr 06 2009, 09:46PM

Registered Member #1062 Joined: Tue Oct 16 2007, 02:01AM
Location:
Posts: 1529

Companies usually cave when you threaten with legal action or the BBB. I hope you don't get a invoice.
Good luck.

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