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Fascist British Government demands passport and registration to buy mobile phone

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Conundrum

Sun Oct 19 2008, 07:28PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062

Whose idiotic idea was this? Britain is beoming more and more like 1939 Germany :(

No doubt just to add insult to injury it will have to be one of the new RFID passports costing virtually double the normal non-RFID variety, adding yet another unnecessary expense. for unfortunate elderly folk needing a lifeline in case of illness/etc.

About the only thing this will do apart from generating yet another army of civil servants is generate meaningless data on stupid teenagers who keep losing their phones and buy replacements. I wouldn't be surprised if the Govt ban open access points next "just because they might be used by terrorists, horror!"

-A

Steve Conner

Mon Oct 20 2008, 09:40AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

You were doing great there until you mentioned Hitler.

Dr. Drone

Mon Oct 20 2008, 04:35PM

Registered Member #290 Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 08:24PM
Location:
Posts: 1673

Bored Chemist

Mon Oct 20 2008, 05:06PM

Registered Member #193 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 07:04AM
Location: sheffield
Posts: 1022

Can someone explain why the UK government is so keen on ID cards?
They say it's to combat terroism, but the London bombers and the 9/11 bombers all had valid ID so that doesn't make sense.

The new cards will cost me money and I won't gain anything from it.
If I were anything other than white and middle aged I would expect to get hassle from the police "just checking" that I had my card with me.
This will create more tension and risks driving more people to extremist action.

Anyone who says "if you don't have anything to hide this doesn't matter" should be made to walk round naked until they understand what privacy is about.

Just because I act legally isn't the issue here. I cannot be sure that my government will not introduce some stupid law next year that I am morally compelled to break. At that point I certainly don't want my prints, DNA etc. on file.
The Hitler reference isn't particularly helpful. But the fact that this sort of decision makes people think of Hitler's activities should act as a warning; it's not an analogy most people throw about readily.
The truth is that this really is the sort of thing our fathers and grandfathers fought to avoid and we are not even being given the chance to vote on it.

Conundrum

Mon Oct 20 2008, 06:07PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062

Yeah, I say enough is enough. If we don't fight for our civil rights then they will disappear, before you know it your shopping trolley will be talking to your doctor and your bank, so if you exceed your healthy eating allowance it blocks you from buying any more sweeties/etc for a month!

BTW this thread is a bit OT, sorry admins please don't smite me, thanks...

Chris Russell

Mon Oct 20 2008, 06:47PM

... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052

I think Bored Chemist really nailed the issue here. A government that is all-knowing and all-seeing has, essentially, unlimited power over its citizens. They are free to pass whatever law they like into existence, provided they can dupe the majority into supporting it, and instantly enforce it to the fullest extent.

Tying identification to a cellular phone is an excellent method of being able to track the daily movements of a large majority of the people. Will it save lives in the long run? I doubt it. Terrorists are not that easy to put off. They'll either use fake ID, cloned phones, or find another means of remote triggering. I don't think the Hitler reference is warranted, but it seems to me that oppressive governments throughout history would have salivated at the thought of being able to tell where nearly everyone is at all times.

It really makes one wonder what sort of fun stuff is on the horizon. I guess once money is permanently tied to identity, and everyone has national health care, it will be easy to do things like limit the amount of tobacco a person can purchase each week, or prevent obese people from purchasing foods that don't meet a minimum nutritional requirement. It will be trivial to garner support for those kinds of things once everyone is footing everyone else's medical bills.

My biggest fear is that home hobby electronics will come under assault, the way chemistry has. How will we all feel when you have to show ID and explain the intended purpose when purchasing IGBTs? Or when one of us gets raided at 3am for purchasing too many resistors in a two month period? You don't have anything to hide, so why should you care if the ATF wants to have a chat on your lawn at gunpoint? This sort of stuff isn't happening yet (to us -- it certainly is to others), but if we continue to turn a blind eye to these sorts of issues, it will be, and soon. I think we just need to go about it intelligently. Invoking Hitler and fascism each time the issue comes up will only put people on the defensive immediately. We'll be branded tinfoil hatters, and that will be the end of our ability to contribute to a meaningful discourse on the subject.

Conundrum

Mon Oct 20 2008, 08:51PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062

They showed Nokia phones (specifically 3310s) as "car bomb triggers" on the news just now. FFS, as if we didn't have enough to worry about, now any electronics hobbyist collecting phones for other projects (such as weather stations etc) will be branded a terrorist. I also read somewhere that the Govt are looking into restricting the sale of certain parts (such as high voltage capacitors) under the guise of preventing terrorism, while actually making it inconvenient for normal law abiding citizens to repair equipment or build projects.

I actually once got stopped back in 2000 on the way back from a medical appointment with the spoils of a Maplins raid to the tune of Â£150 (!) and asked a few questions about what it was all for. Scared me enough that I don't buy parts when abroad any more just in case.

aonomus

Tue Oct 21 2008, 02:23AM

Registered Member #1497 Joined: Thu May 22 2008, 05:24AM
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 801

Well from IRC channel discussions people ordering across the EU already have to deal with such BS when ordering electronic parts, and Dalus did too.

The one phrase that applies is 'who watches the watchers'. Therefore my flawed logic is as follows:

If terrorists build bombs and cannot be stopped
-and-
The government passes facist police state rules and cannot be stopped

Government = terrorists

Internet win, ECHELON can suck mah balls now.

Bored Chemist

Tue Oct 21 2008, 05:49AM

Registered Member #193 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 07:04AM
Location: sheffield
Posts: 1022

Echelon doesn't exist; the Govt says so.

ragnar

Tue Oct 21 2008, 07:08AM

Registered Member #63 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425

I picked up five Nokia 3315s from eBay Australia for home automation ideas -- it's frightening to imagine what the ASIO reaction could be if I was middle-eastern. It's nothing to be paranoid about, but it's a worry that sits at the back of my mind, along with the new Australian laws on lasers.

Sometimes I feel a bit more comfortable when I look at it as politicians drafting superfluous laws to create the misconception that "something's being done", instead of prosecuting criminals who commit crimes, but I worry about something more sinister, or the future implications of current legislation that is poorly written or unenforced (the consequence of non-enforcement being that the danger/idiocy of enacted laws is not recognized immediately).

While I'd almost side with Chris ("if you are not doing anything wrong, then why worries or nervous tension"), we must recognize that legality, morality, and safety rarely line up. If, without being a qualified electrician, I change a light bulb in a private dwelling in the state of Victoria, I'm not doing anything wrong, but it happens to be illegal. If I live in Saudi Arabia and I smacked my wives around for refusing intercourse, I'd not be doing anything illegal, but it strikes me as wrong.

In Australia, to commit suicide and fail is against the law and will land you in involuntary treatment. It's not up to the government to decide whether suicide is right or wrong. A law to "protect the public" at the expense of the individual is a dangerous tool, and I can understand why some people are tired of being "protected".

One fifteen year old surfing pornsites should not justify rampant censorship and compulsory ISP filtering (at the expense of millions of incorrectly blocked sites), just as one individual inappropriately using a mobile phone should not justify making ownership a prohibitive pain in the arse (at the inconvenience of millions of normal people). The West really needs to ease up on laws which disincentivize honesty.

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