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Rocket Triggered Lightning

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LAN_403

HV Enthusiast

Sat Apr 05 2008, 04:20AM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068

Logan Kennedy wrote ...

wrote ...
I do agree with Dr. Shock that at this level of knowledge it wopuld be completely suicidal to trigger lightning.

That's why I'm researching and asking questions.

Asking questions is fine, however, as the site rules indicate, you need to do your homework first, especially when proposing a complex project such as this. Typically, general knowledge which is easily obtainable on the internet (and other sources), which the physics of lightning falls under, should be done beforehand. Although there was some initial bickering on the safety and legality of the project (myself guilty as charged), the project is interesting and worth discussing. However, when you propose such as project, yet appear to lack a complete undestanding of how lightning strikes, it reflects poorly on yourself. My advice would be to spend an hour or two researching everything you can on lightning and dig up whatever you can on rocket triggered systems (there are some papers on this which i've found). It will only help you.

Thanks

Site Rules
Part II: Posting

B. Do your own research. If you intend to ask a question, please make sure it isn't already addressed in the archives, or on the wiki. Also, be sure to perform at least a cursory Google search. Remember, nobody wants to do your homework for you. Show some effort, and the community will repay you in kind.

BTW, i know i proposed we keep this discussion theoretical, but i'll do some of your homework and come up with a list of things you'll need to address before doing this experiment.

1. Initial research - Learn about lightning, rocket design, rocket launching systems, rocket triggered lightning theory etc...

2. Design wire spool feed system (use all mechanical parameters - weight, drag, etc... to design delivery system - rocket)

3. Design rocket

4. Design rocket recovery system - need to ensure safe recovery of rocket to ground

5. Design and build remote rocket firing system.

6. Select launch site for rocket system - choose based on safety and occurence of lightning storms

7. Select launch control site - Ensure 100% safety

8. Ensure method for safely setting up equipment. Standing in a field with a rocket and electrical wire is probably not too safe during a thunderstorm

9. How do i measure the charge of a cloud to see if its high enough to initiate a lightning strike??? Remember, a cloud that has already produced a lightning strike likely is a poor candidate

10. How am i going to collect and measure data?

11. Do i have enough funds to cover this project? building one rocket is probably not going to cut it. Remember, the Chinese government recently did a lightning study over 3 summers and only captured 10 lightning strikes during the entire period. Do you really think a single rocket is going to work the first time?

Backyard Skunkworks

Sat Apr 05 2008, 07:06AM

Registered Member #1262 Joined: Fri Jan 25 2008, 05:22AM
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 451

I've heard of ideas like this before! I know a great site with some stories about how well projects like this can go with some careful planning...

http://www.darwinawards.com/

Yeah, seriously keep this theoretical. If you actually tried to launch a grounded rocket into a thunder storm I'm sure you'd find some way of getting hit by lightning.

Carbon_Rod

Sat Apr 05 2008, 07:08AM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

Things that fly over 500m within city limits is illegal without certification or event permits. If it shows on someone's radar (or even if not) you will be contacted by the law.

As a kid I tried this once with balloons and fine copper wire, and never reached over 100m without it breaking. Perhaps carbon filament fishing line may work.

Attracting lightning is easy... own a golf club?

Bjørn

Sat Apr 05 2008, 07:33AM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

Copper wire can do amazing things if you twist it around some other strong wire. Aluminium wire can probably do a lot better still.

WaveRider

Sat Apr 05 2008, 08:57AM

Registered Member #29 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 09:00AM
Location: Hasselt, Belgium
Posts: 500

Logan, if you are really interested in this topic, why not have a look at the Earth Science dept. of the Marshall Space Flight Center.. They do all sorts of lightning research. Lots of work seems to go on at the Uni. Alabama, Huntsville.. Perhaps you could consider a stint in post-graduate school there.... This would probably be the safest route as well as put lots of expensive equipment at your disposal!

Proud Mary

Sat Apr 05 2008, 10:37AM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

This thread has certainly opened my eyes to the possibility of using quite simple equipment to detect X-ray and gamma ray bursts associated with thunder clouds, which could be done by the industrious amateur [me, ha ha!] without too much difficulty and expense.

I've read that these bremsstrahlung rays can occasionally be detected at sea level [that's me!] so almost anyone could involve themselves in this very new area of research.

Bert

Sat Apr 05 2008, 03:59PM

Registered Member #118 Joined: Fri Feb 10 2006, 05:35AM
Location: Woodridge, Illinois, USA
Posts: 72

Logan,

Harnessing lightning or using a high voltage capacitor bank will only provide you with very high temperatures for a short time. If your objective is to generate a sustained high temperatures plasma over a longer time, have you considered using a constricted arc or a plasma torch? A high current DC arc that's been artificially constricted to a small diameter (such as within a water vortex) can achieve core temperatures approaching 30,000 K with reasonable input power (10's of KW). Even a relatively simple water-cooled hollow electrode plasma torch can provide temperatures in the 5000 - 13000 K range. And you can even power it from a bank of car batteries for short periods. This is sufficient to easily vaporize any material. What is your intended application??

teravolt

Sat Apr 05 2008, 07:25PM

Registered Member #195 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 08:27PM
Location: Berkeley, ca.
Posts: 1111

like Wave Rider said there are sertan sweet spots for lightning in the US where this sort of reserch is done. I wached some shows on lightning on the discovery channel and the scientists are in a bunkers. lighning is about 200KA and should be respected along with your neighbors. I must admit I allways thought this would be a kool expieriment properly done. It wuold be easy to setup and would be setup before the storm arives. be careful if you atempt this

Logan Kennedy

Sun Apr 06 2008, 07:10AM

Registered Member #1103 Joined: Mon Nov 05 2007, 06:02PM
Location: Houston
Posts: 80

Okay guys, thanks for all the advice. I'm finished with this thread, and will probably not be posting in it anymore. I've obtained all the information I need.

Please feel free to discuss this topic even though I probably won't pay much mind to this thread anymore.

ramses

Sun Apr 06 2008, 03:09PM

Registered Member #1208 Joined: Thu Jan 03 2008, 05:30PM
Location: Chesterland, OH
Posts: 154

I just realized that the wire spool wouldn't have to be on the rocket- It could be on the ground. you could put it on a metal spool connected to a metal bracket that was earthed, and just connect the lead of wire to somewhere on the rocket, very securely.

the spool could even be motorized, since during the initial acceleration, there would be a huge jerk because of the inertia of the spool and the wire attached to it.

to better predict the chance of a strike, you could have a large antenna (not earthed) and connect a really high impedance multimeter between it and ground, allowing you to measure the electric field.

there is a thread around here about someone putting fluorescent tubes under high tension wires, and getting enough voltage to light them just because of the electric field between the wires and earth.

ramses

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