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MOT Power Dual Ignition Coil Driver

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LAN_403

prodigy

Thu Mar 06 2008, 10:05AM

Registered Member #1379 Joined: Thu Mar 06 2008, 09:49AM
Location:
Posts: 7

Hi, with some inspiration from TeslaDownUnder I came up with a MOT powered Dual Ignition Coil Driver.

The setup is really basic. The MOT is connected to 240v mains and controlled by a on/off foot pedal.

The tank circuit is a standard tesla coil tank circuit. The MOT output is converted to DC with only 2 diodes so one gets 1/2 wave DC. This DC voltage runs to 3 .97pf standard MO Capacitors. The spark gap is a spark plug with shorts the capacitors during overvoltage across two ignitoion coils hooked up with their negative terminals together positive terminals outward.

The setup will run for some time without kicking out the power or overheating any components despite the fact it is very crude!

Sorry no photos!

Good luck & I think I have just proven MOTs even though they do not have current limiting and provide only 2Kv are a very useful and effective driving circuit. I get roughly 20cm sparks.

CompWiz

Thu Mar 06 2008, 02:14PM

Registered Member #1038 Joined: Mon Oct 01 2007, 08:02PM
Location:
Posts: 96

Thats better then my first Marx generator!

Tesladownunder

Thu Mar 06 2008, 03:57PM

Registered Member #10 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 09:45AM
Location: Bunbury, Australia
Posts: 1424

I think I will get my inspiration from Prodigy

Are the 2 diodes are in series in a half wave rectifier or is this part of a multiplier?
You are certainly pushing the IC's if you are getting 10cm each.

Nice work. Any chance of pics later?

TDU

vasil

Thu Mar 06 2008, 04:06PM

Registered Member #229 Joined: Tue Feb 21 2006, 07:33PM
Location: Romania
Posts: 506

Up to 30 cm sparks can be obtained if the coils are taken off the metal cans and put in a bigger oil bath.
LINK

It can't run continously though, the gap oxidized quickly. I protected a bit my spark gap ballasting the MOT.

prodigy

Fri Mar 07 2008, 11:04AM

Registered Member #1379 Joined: Thu Mar 06 2008, 09:49AM
Location:
Posts: 7

I will try to get some pics soon. The arcs tend not to be the longest because of insulation problems. But they are fat orange and very loud.

I estimate the frequency around 15khz.

Just last night i modified the design and made a push pull configuration (which used a separated diode bridge so 1/2 AC wave went to one capacitor bank and the other 1/2 wave went to another bank). It basically blew off layers of insulation. Melted my spark plug and generally went awol.

I think we have misunderstood Nikola Tesla with his intentions of building his coil.

Bigger is not better. We need low capacitance low inductance and high powers.

Imagine this: the capacitors charge instantly (almost), then the spark gap experience over voltage. Then the capacitors discharge in the same short time.

The short discharge period would put less stress on the spark gap and a static gap would be suitable. This would also produce a phenomenal flux collapse which would increase efficiency.

Image building a high frequency, harmonious, AC tesla coil. It may be possible with such a setup to use less windings and less copper and produce higher voltages at higher efficiencies?

Think about it. I think all tesla coils are being built incorrectly. This is my humble opinion please dont take offense. Also maths isnt my area so please no silly equations.

Cheers!
-Prodigy

Tesladownunder

Fri Mar 07 2008, 12:26PM

Registered Member #10 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 09:45AM
Location: Bunbury, Australia
Posts: 1424

Just a tip. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If you just have an idea that everyone else is wrong (including Tesla) it is time to take a little step back and think of other possibilities.
It so happens you are wrong for many reasons. Plug your data into JavaTC and see if the big sparks jump out first.

TDU

prodigy

Fri Mar 07 2008, 05:35PM

Registered Member #1379 Joined: Thu Mar 06 2008, 09:49AM
Location:
Posts: 7

Well my humble opinion has sparked rage (excuse the pun). But let me at first apologise for my ignorance of thinking that I am right and everyone else is wrong.

This is too much of a simple statement. Lets give the world a bit of background. I am a 19yo computer technician/high school drop out. I am currently working as a much more humble servant. So in this position I am all to well aware of peoples initial and knee jerk reaction. Cleaner = stupid.

Nikola Tesla a man I know about all too well and yet I cannot get a grasp of his mind. I would never say he is wrong. You have misread me. You and everyone else who builds Tesla Coils are not wrong either.

I am simply trying to put my mind on paper and hope you cast away your own preconceptions and not call me a mad man as Tesla was and still is called.

Lets think about the original premise of Nikola Tesla's power distribution system shall we?

DC vs AC
1.) To transmit high power levels with DC at low voltages (Edison genius (not)) you encounter High Resistance which in turn creates losses through heat.

2.) To convert DC electricity to higher or lower voltages one needs to create pulsed DC. This collapses the magnetic field which increases/decreases voltages on the secondary.

AC electricity by nature alternates so conversion is relatively simple. IE simple MOT transformer or Pole Pig or Phone Charger

3.) DC to AC conversion is difficult. AC to DC is simple. Diodes. Wow

Now back to my point. Do you think the father of your beloved HV devices especially The Tesla Coil named after him would be proud with the high amperage capacitive discharge everyone so eagerly pursues?

No I think not. Now if one wants an Air Core transformer to operate efficiently does one need High Frequency or Low Frequency?

Sure switching a huge capacitor bank through a poorly constructed spark gap will make big arcs. But thats all it will do.....

Please let me know of any single man of this earth who has constructed a Tesla Coil beside the man himself Tesla that will work without fail for over 30 minutes? Perhaps a whole day? A year even?

This is the part that makes me laugh 100 years later we cannot reproduce what Tesla did? How would he send power all over the earth with a TC that overheats in one minute?

Now maybe you may understand why Tesla managed to use bottle capacitors with out high losses? Well maybe he didn't have anywhere near the reflux every man and his dog experiences.

Maybe if we switch capacitor voltage quickly through a low impedance coil the magnetic field wont return?

Sorry to those who are offended by my comments but one should not be so defensive with ones ideas because that is the reason why science hasn't progressed as fast as it could.

Tesla still a mad man?

Oh and as for those picture I will post them this weekend as well as a schematic of my design.

BTW computer programs will always return the input they are created with. A calculator will tell me nothing more than the beliefs of the creator of the gadget. We don't need equations we need practical down to earth investigation.

You have nothing to loose but ego being close minded, but everything to gain by trying new ideas to see if they work.

Have a wonderful day!
Cheers!
-prodigy

prodigy

Sat Mar 08 2008, 04:21PM

Registered Member #1379 Joined: Thu Mar 06 2008, 09:49AM
Location:
Posts: 7

Flame wars aside. Back down to business. See attached photos of Mark 1 and Mark2. Mark 2 is a push and pull configuration that has punished my spark plug SG. Too much capacitance in my mind. Anyway enjoy!

Hope they work they are in PNG format.

Edit: Please open files to view they show up black other wise.

-Prodigy

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Sat Mar 08 2008, 06:00PM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

I have some trouble understanding what you're doing or asking, no offense. Tesla coils are SYNERGISTIC as Tesla states, and as many many others before you and I state. Richard Hull, Terry Frits, Mark Nichols, Steve Conner, Steve Ward, and many others, now including myself, have researched this, and the fact is that everything needs to be "just right" for good performance. The wire gauge for the secondary is even an important factor, so when you might say a coil was made wrong it really isn't made 'wrong', you just have to understand that the system as a whole is a balance of comprimises.

I have no doubt that I could run a coil for a half hour. My chief problem is the motor to my rotary spark gap. The small motor cannot handle turning the rotary flywheel for long periods of time because it wasn't designed to do it. The second issue would be my transformer getting too warm. I am operating it at peak effiency, something they're not designed to do by the way, so it really should be under oil for a half hour run.
My capacitors are probably the best money can afford, they are TDK laser pulse capacitors you see on ebay all the time. They really are tough little brutes, so as far as discharge goes they do a pretty efficient job. I still want to check out how the CDE caps compare though, and I'll do that after I'm done with some coupling studies.

Here is a shot I use a lot because I like it, but its also showing a 720VA system. Quite a few people are using 1500+ VA to get the same output length, so I think I'm doing something right. Also check out what Richard Hull has done in the past, and maybe contact him for the TCBOR Guide to the Colorado Springs Notes. It's nice to have a copy of that in your library. Contact him ( formerly TCBOR now its something different ) because you can get a copy from him (or Twenty First Century Books ) for ~ $30, otherwise if you try to get it from something like Amazon its going to cost you $200 because there aren't many copies floating around.
Another good book I just got is Modern Tesla Coil Theory by Duane A Buylund. I'm liking that one quite a bit. (Twenty First Century Books)

Matt

prodigy

Sat Mar 08 2008, 06:29PM

Registered Member #1379 Joined: Thu Mar 06 2008, 09:49AM
Location:
Posts: 7

Well the whole idea of this thread was MOT PSUs. So I will start another thread when I can be bothered arguing. Thanks for your advice and time.

Hope my MOT PSU is replicated and works as well as it does for me.

I am sure millions of dollars have gone into building, replicating and deploying TCs. Its just a shame the man himself inst still here to teach us!

I will come back in maybe a month, year or a decade with physical proof of my ideas. Till then keep coiling.

Good luck
-Prodigy

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