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Dr. Shark

Fri Mar 10 2006, 12:16PM

Registered Member #75 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 09:30AM
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 711

I think that you are right. Its surprising how easily an "OLTC" can be build without a single solid state component

Why has nobody ever done this, at least in the last 50 years??

Steve Conner

Fri Mar 10 2006, 12:25PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

Handheld vacuum leak testers use exactly this circuit and have been in production from the 1940s to the present day, so it's not exactly right to state that "No-one has done this since the 40s". Uber coiling geek Terry Fritz owns one and has posted waveforms from it: I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to find them

The secret to understanding the kicker coil circuit is to think of it as a Tesla coil whose tank capacitor is being charged by a boost converter. The vibrating contact points are both the switch of the boost converter (when they actually close) and the spark gap of the Tesla coil (due to the arcing between them when they have opened and are closing again with the charged tank capacitor across them) The inductor of the boost converter is also the electromagnet that makes the contacts vibrate.

I have seen quite a few original violet ray wands brought to UK Teslathons and they look more painful than "stimulating"

The biggest meanest one I saw is listed here as a diathermy machine

I think it actually did use the modern day Tesla coil circuit rather than the kicker coil.

Dr. Shark

Fri Mar 10 2006, 12:34PM

Registered Member #75 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 09:30AM
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 711

The master hath spoken! Actually, I was thinking the exactly same thing, "is there some kind of boost converter action going on?" just before reading your post. So the mystery is solved, great.
You know, this is for heavy BDSM play, not for the faint of heart, so yes, for some people this would be "stimulating" :-0

Now that the first part of my question is answered the second part remains: Is it the low duty cycle pulses or what makes the sparks painful, but not causing RF-burns? If noone knows, I guess I have to get the interrupter for my SSTC going and do some field studys :-/

Steve Conner

Fri Mar 10 2006, 12:45PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

I don't think S&M is an acceptable topic of discussion. We are happy to give advice on building all sorts of HV devices, just don't tell us too much about what you're going to do with them

RF burns are mainly what makes Tesla coil sparks painful, since the high frequency current doesn't stimulate nerves. The outer layer of skin has a pretty high resistance and the arc heats a small patch to a very high temperature from I2R losses.

I have seen mini spark gap coils with very small bang energy and high rep rate, and you can draw a purple corona from the topload to your finger that barely tickles. On the other hand I tried letting my smallest OLTC arc to my hand at its lowest breakrate (about 0.5J bang energy, 100kV and a 6" long arc repeating about once per second) and it stings like getting jabbed with a needle.

Marko

Fri Mar 10 2006, 01:25PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

Small relay or ''kicker'' coils as you call them and mini SGTCs cannot cause almost any burns, that's sure. Maybe give a small shock if you get too close.
Spark simply doesnt last enough to make any damage, for example my nano SGTC gave 5cm sparks that could be drawn by hand without harm, getting closer to sphere tinghing would increase and start to be annoyng at 2 cm, some kind of 'stable' arc formed there.
So I dont think it can be used for such ind of 'therapies' without harm.

Dogs Die In Hot arCs

Dr. Shark

Fri Mar 10 2006, 01:47PM

Registered Member #75 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 09:30AM
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 711

That is something where I have contradictory information: Some sources claim SSTCs to be much safer that the spark gap type, other sources say that SSTCs to be much worse at causing burns and nerve damage because of the higher CW power involved. I suppose the reason for SGTC to be handeled with care is that it always carries the danger of connecting you to the NST or MOT which is driving it.
From a general "safe to touch" point of view factoring in both components, an interrupted SSTC running off a low voltage supply and having a really low duty cycle would probably be the optimum.

BubeeMike

Tue Jun 12 2012, 09:31AM

Registered Member #4829 Joined: Thu May 10 2012, 04:55PM
Location: Los Angele, CA
Posts: 8

This has been an amazing thread for me to read. WOW! If any of you are still active on here thank you very much.

I actually work for a company that deals in Violet wands so while I am very new and likely the least knowledgeable here on the technical aspects of these (which I a trying o change) I have a ton of experience with the devices itself. There are many uses for these, beauty industry is another one... But asw Steve Asked I won't get in to the many uses...

;) But there are Solid State devices now and they are more uncomfortable due to the frequency at least from the current manufacturers. (Which I am trying to research on how to adjust or fix). You guys really nailed it and I suspect some of you are more familiar with he VW than you let on. It is indeed the lower frequency that people tend to find pleasurable. And they can vibrate and IMO feel quite fun, not painful.

Anyway, was my first post, I joined a week ago and have been reading here a bit before posting. I hope I did not violate any rules or offend anyone. I am looking for coiling clubs in the LA area if anyone knows of any. I am very fascinated with this sub-culture almost that I have found. I have purchased every book I could find on Coiling I think from "The Ultimate Tesla Coil Design guide' to the newer DRSSTC book. So I am really interested in learning what I can. I would like to see my company produce something much more to date in an industry that is very dated.

Any Suggestions or help in direction as to any folks that would make for good people to hook up with for fun, or even consultants (Paid of course) please feel free to PM me. ( I hope that is kosher) I will edit if not, or feel free to moderate...

Anyway, Thank you all,

Mike

Marko

Tue Jun 12 2012, 08:10PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

Wee, yay for BDSM and 6 year old threads :)

BubeeMike: Welcome to the forum, I can't think what's wrong with a bit of BDSM, more interesting than most other posts on this forum lately!

Nice catsuits too :D

A few things I learned over time...

-Much like there is a treshold feelable current for DC, I think there is also a treshold feelable charge for very short pulses. A zap from a Van de Graaf is still going to be felt despite it might last only a few nanoseconds (and hence posses mainly very high frequency harmonics) due to high amount of charge it carries.
On the other hand, a single half cycle of SSTC output carries nowhere enough charge to be felt (and the following half cycle undoes the first one).

The reason I think big tesla coils deliver significant shocks is simply because of their toploads, on a pretty much same mechanism as VDG - only the initial short discharge of the topload is one that hurts. Coils with small or no toploads were generally nice to touch, disregard of how they were driven!

I have seen some of those kicker-relay type TC's before, and I assume violet wands are pretty much the same thing in a more compact envelope. I may be wrong, but I presume the tormentfulness factor of the thing is adjusted simply by adjusting the size of the topload.

Considering the above, if I wanted to build a more modern version, I'd probably make it a miniature CW multiplier (would be truly micropower and could run off batteries). No corona display like a tesla coil though.

Marko

Thomas W

Tue Jun 12 2012, 09:13PM

Registered Member #3324 Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
Location:
Posts: 1276

i pesonaly think threads like this should be tagged NSFW for people that dont really want to hear this stuff, that and "think of the kids"

Steve Conner

Wed Jun 13 2012, 06:31AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

I think as long as the discussion focuses on the technical aspects of the violet wand, and doesn't go into too much graphic detail about what it might be used for, that will be fine.

I would suggest to the designer that it's only fair to test it on yourself first.

On the technical side, I think there might be something in the frequency argument. Maybe a Class-E coil is the way to go. Audio modulated of course!

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