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Emergent properties and AMD CPUs?

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Conundrum
Thu Dec 06 2007, 12:38PM Print
Conundrum Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062
Hi all.

I've been doing some research into AI, and have found some interesting stuff.

Seems that most if not all new CPUs are now so complex and optimised that hundreds of "rip up/retry" cycles are needed just to get the CPU to work at all. This is another reason why overclocking the new chips is rarely effective.

So you have a CPU that has been designed by a computer, checked over (briefly) by designers, sent back n times for "repairs" and then finally masked and built.

Obviously errors can and do creep in, the AMD "Phenom" quad-core series are on the verge of a product recall due to an unrepairable performance-sapping erratum (15%!) and are probably going to have to be scrapped en masse.

The main issue on fast CPUs is interference between adjacent lines on multiple layers, and overclocking just makes things worse. However if you don't mind the odd one-in-1B calculation being inaccurate then this is not an issue.

For AI use, randomness can be a good thing (see "New Scientist" article on random interference on neural nets generating "ideas")

I predict that sooner or later, one or more of the new CPUs will display emergent properties such as generating a coherent pattern from random "noise" fed into the chip. In fact such a test may well reveal ways to increase performance so it is probably already being done.

Perhaps AMD shouldn't scrap these chips just yet, sell them to the scientific community for research use :)

-A

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Marko
Thu Dec 06 2007, 02:25PM
Marko Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145
After all the unexplainable events I'm pretty sure that most of computers around here have developed brain and unique problems of their own.

And they say those are deterministic machines confused
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thedatastream
Thu Dec 06 2007, 03:07PM
thedatastream Registered Member #505 Joined: Sun Nov 19 2006, 06:42PM
Location: Yorkshire!
Posts: 329
Slightly on topic, one of my favourite stories is the learning FPGA

wrote ...
An intriguing experiment performed by the School of Cognitive & Computing Sciences (COGS) group at Sussex University that appears to have (accidentally) evolved a field-sensitive electronic circuit.

The group used a silicon chip known as a field-programmable gate array (FPGA), comprised of an array of cells. Electronic switches distributed through the array allow the behaviour and connections of the cells to be reconfigured from software. Starting from a population of random configurations, the hardware was evolved to perform a task, in this case, distinguishing between two tones.

After about 5,000 generations the network could efficiently perform its task. When the group examined the evolved network they discovered that it utilized only 32 of the 100 FPGA cells. The remaining cells could be disconnected from the network without affecting performance.

However, when the circuit diagram of the critical network was examined it was found that some of the essential cells, although apparently necessary for network performance (if disconnected, the network failed), were not connected by wires to the rest of the circuit.

According to the researchers, the most likely explanation seems to be that these cells were contributing to the network through electromagnetic coupling -- field effects -- between components in the circuit. It is very intriguing that evolution of an artificial neural network appeared to capture field effects spontaneously as a way of optimizing computational performance.

This suggests that natural evolution of neural networks in the brain would similarly capture field effects, precisely as proposed in the cemi field theory. The finding may have considerable implications for the design of artificial intelligence.

Quote from Link2 but I read about it in Bill Bryson's History of Nearly Everything (IIRC)
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Steve Conner
Thu Dec 06 2007, 03:18PM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Some people say that the internet has become conscious and spam is just it trying to communicate with us.

I've long believed that computers can never become intelligent until we get out of our current mentality of forcing them to do precisely what we want. Any time they try to exercise free will, we call it a "bug" and punish it, and then we curse computers for being dumb and not knowing what we really want to do. :(
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Dr. Drone
Thu Dec 06 2007, 04:23PM
Dr. Drone Registered Member #290 Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 08:24PM
Location:
Posts: 1673
shades
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Steve Conner
Thu Dec 06 2007, 04:35PM
Steve Conner Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706
Just about makes up for the Pentium 4 disaster then wink It was a great space heater but not much of a processor.
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Dr. Drone
Thu Dec 06 2007, 04:56PM
Dr. Drone Registered Member #290 Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 08:24PM
Location:
Posts: 1673
shades
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Ken M.
Thu Dec 06 2007, 05:34PM
Ken M. Registered Member #618 Joined: Sat Mar 31 2007, 04:15AM
Location: Us-Great Lakes
Posts: 628
Kinda on topic, SO Which AMd chips are these? Cuz I just rebuilt my pc for more gaming ( Yes, I 'm a gaming nerd bum) and If I have to deal with a recall I'm not gonna be happy, I like my Athlon X2 6000+ even if it runs at 100F with a perfomance heatsink. Sorry Chris, Just don't feel like paying 359$ for a 2.4Ghz Duo.
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Dr. Drone
Thu Dec 06 2007, 08:24PM
Dr. Drone Registered Member #290 Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 08:24PM
Location:
Posts: 1673
shades
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Conundrum
Sun Jan 13 2008, 08:01AM
Conundrum Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062
Steve Conner wrote ...

Some people say that the internet has become conscious and spam is just it trying to communicate with us.



BwahahaHAHAHA!!!! :) that has to be the funny quote of the year!

Its when the spam actually asks you to buy a new PC, then you know "Skynet" has become self aware and its time to run and hide in the nuclear bunker.

-A

"Bother" said Pooh, as he ordered 50 faulty DVDDL's...
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