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Splitting atoms...maybe.

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Simon

Tue Oct 09 2007, 11:52PM

Registered Member #32 Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 08:58AM
Location: Australia
Posts: 549

Marko wrote ...

BTW, my avatar is a nuclear bomb too.

AKA, the famous "Manipulating Subcritical Masses with a Screwdriver Turns Out to Be a Bad Idea" incident.

You can look at the mass changes involved the other way. Say you could measure a 1 microgram difference in mass (a worthy feat for a hobbyist). That would represent 90MJ of energy (E=mc^2) that would have to go somewhere. (NB: just ~10Sv, i.e. 10J/kg effective dose, is a massive dose of radiation that would result in certain death.)

I haven't heard anything about using electricity in atomic physics like that. I guess in theory it could be done with a seriously accelerated electron and an atom stripped of all its own electrons. "Splitting atoms" is generally just done with radioactive materials. That stuff is really the simple bit; a nuclear fission bomb works (crudely) by just ramming subcritical fissile material into a dense lump.

Robotking, I think we all know you aren't about to make a nuclear device. It's fascinating stuff to read about, so go for it.

Marko

Wed Oct 10 2007, 12:27PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

I haven't heard anything about using electricity in atomic physics like that. I guess in theory it could be done with a seriously accelerated electron and an atom stripped of all its own electrons. "Splitting atoms" is generally just done with radioactive materials. That stuff is really the simple bit; a nuclear fission bomb works (crudely) by just ramming subcritical fissile material into a dense lump.

As 'indirect approach' of using electricity I was referring specifically to this;

Regarding particle accelerators, they work too but only in really microscopic scales.

And I don't think that electrons are used for this either since they don't interact via strong interaction, and hadrons or ions are rather used as bullets. But I'm no expert there.

Steve Conner

Wed Oct 10 2007, 02:17PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

You can use a fusor to generate neutrons, and then use the neutrons to provoke fission in uranium and try to detect the beta particles or whatever it is that fission gives off.

I don't know if a hobbyist Farnsworth fusor would make enough neutrons to give a measurable amount of fission, especially in the lumps of uranium ore you can buy from United Nuclear. Maybe ask your mom for some weapons-grade uranium.

Marko

Wed Oct 10 2007, 02:36PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

If few fissions are all you wanted you could go without the fusor by using some of those infamous united nuclear Po210 needle sources and some beryllium, from UN too.

I don't know how much neutrons would such a source generate but still I would hope for some at least GM-counter measurable fissions when some natural uranium is irradiated.

sehrgut

Wed Oct 10 2007, 08:19PM

Registered Member #1017 Joined: Fri Sept 21 2007, 09:08PM
Location:
Posts: 24

Bored Chemist wrote ...

Last I heard was that the "boy scout" was in jail for stealing smoke detectors.

He just can't keep his hands off that Americium, can he? *grin*

Zonalklism

Wed Oct 10 2007, 10:28PM

Registered Member #213 Joined: Sun Feb 19 2006, 05:48PM
Location: Blythewood, SC
Posts: 39

Simon wrote ...

Robotking, I think we all know you aren't about to make a nuclear device. It's fascinating stuff to read about, so go for it.

Haha...I'm definatly not about to make a fission bomb. (That would be awesome though!) And I don't know where one could aqquire enough refined uranium 235..."WTB a large quantity of U235..." That would have homeland security knockin' on ur front door in about two seconds...

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Thu Oct 11 2007, 02:48AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

Probably won't be too hard to get if you had a contact from N. Korea, Russia, or Iran.

Coyote Wilde

Thu Oct 11 2007, 03:03AM

Registered Member #175 Joined: Tue Feb 14 2006, 09:32PM
Location: Sudbury, ON
Posts: 111

When the USSR supplied its client states with uranium for exported reactor technology, they always took every gram of nuclear waste back, upon threat of Bad Things(tm) happening to your country and/or loved ones. I imagine modern Russia has a similar policy, officially. They offered Iran a varient of that deal, but it was down, so you know they've got a stash of the fun stuff building...
I'm not sure how keen on they'd be sharing. 'specially with an Infidel.

If you want fission, I can see Marko's suggestion working, actually. If you just want nuclear events happening in your basement, nothing beats a good fusor... if you want a _really_ big explosion, try a fuel-air bomb; the feds don't watch propane near so closely.

Another cool nuclear physics experiment you could pull off easily would be a spinthariscope; a couple people on the forum have done that already.
And I apologize if my earlier post sounded condescending... I can get stuck in "lecture and elucidate" mode if I'm not careful. >_>;

Zonalklism

Thu Oct 11 2007, 07:06PM

Registered Member #213 Joined: Sun Feb 19 2006, 05:48PM
Location: Blythewood, SC
Posts: 39

Yeh, I think I'm going to go with the fusor idea. I'm glad y'all told me about it, cuz I had never heard or read anything about it before. But hey, now all I need is some deuterium gas and a vacuum pump. I've got the rest of the components.

And I apologize if my earlier post sounded condescending... I can get stuck in "lecture and elucidate" mode if I'm not careful. >_> - Coyote Wilde

No problem, I sometimes find myself in lecture mode too, however unlike you, I don't come out of it so willingly...

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Thu Oct 11 2007, 09:14PM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

Just don't buy a used vacuum pump if at all possible. I have 2 used Welch 1400's that are perfect for the job and they are worn out. Oh, and if you get a used pump don't try to rebuild it yourself. I tried to do that too and the new shaft seals don't work and now I can't get below 100 micron. So do yourself a favor and get a direct drive Edwards pump if possible, they are less troublesome.

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