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Splitting atoms...maybe.

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Zonalklism

Mon Oct 08 2007, 10:47PM

Registered Member #213 Joined: Sun Feb 19 2006, 05:48PM
Location: Blythewood, SC
Posts: 39

I have a (relatively) simple question... Would it be possible to split any significant amount of atoms, in any material, using a high energy electrical pulse, such as one from a device using very high energy pulse capacitors? The way I am thinking of measuring if any atoms were split, is to encase the actual (victim) substance in an airtight container, applying the high energy pulse, and weighing it before, and after the pulse. I figure if I can split enough atoms, a small amount of those atoms will be converted into energy, therefore making the weight change slightly.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as well as someone telling me that this idea is so bass-ackwards its not funny.

(edit) I just noticed, I'm asking a question about splitting atoms, and my avatar is a nuclear bomb...Hmm, do I have a WMD obsession?...

Simon

Mon Oct 08 2007, 10:56PM

Registered Member #32 Joined: Sat Feb 04 2006, 08:58AM
Location: Australia
Posts: 549

You won't be able to measure a difference. Imagine a typical radioactive source, Am-241 from a smoke detector, for example. Atoms are exploding and busting up all the time. Sure, the mass changes, but it's not something you can measure on kitchen scales.

Have a look here, for example:

It says the binding energy of a deuterium nucleus is about a thousandth of the mass-energy of the nucleus as a whole. That's the order of magnitude we're talking about.

Zonalklism

Mon Oct 08 2007, 11:12PM

Registered Member #213 Joined: Sun Feb 19 2006, 05:48PM
Location: Blythewood, SC
Posts: 39

Ah. Yes, I knew that the measure would be minute, but I was thinking that small. Anyway, I thought that radioactive materials naturally decayed by throwing off neutrons, but not split.

Coyote Wilde

Mon Oct 08 2007, 11:20PM

Registered Member #175 Joined: Tue Feb 14 2006, 09:32PM
Location: Sudbury, ON
Posts: 111

Natural decay can occur in several modes: alpha decay, where a helium nucleus is spit out; beta decay, where an electron or positron goes bye, spontanious fission (yes, they just up and split by their lonesum) and neutron decay. Spontaneous fission and neutron decay both tend do be much more rare than the other two-- most nucleotides have more than one mode, and favor alpha or beta heavily over spontaneous fission.
Fission, spontaneous or otherwise, is a nuclear phenomenon, moderated by the nuclear forces. Not electromagnetism. Dig?
You can pulse capacitors until you're blue in the face, and the only decay that will have happened is normal, exponential, unless you're running some kind of particle accelerator, which by your description didn't seem to be the intent.
I think you need to do a lot more reading on this sort of thing

Zonalklism

Mon Oct 08 2007, 11:35PM

Registered Member #213 Joined: Sun Feb 19 2006, 05:48PM
Location: Blythewood, SC
Posts: 39

Well, thanks for the advice, Coyote, even if it was a bit condescending...However, moving away from the pulse cap idea...um, nevermind. I can't think of another (relatively) simple way to end some atom's lives.

sehrgut

Tue Oct 09 2007, 03:12AM

Registered Member #1017 Joined: Fri Sept 21 2007, 09:08PM
Location:
Posts: 24

It's simple enough the Radioactive Boyscout did it . . . of course, he's now living with the results of radiation poisoning, so ymmv.

Steve Conner

Tue Oct 09 2007, 09:13AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

How about a Farnsworth fusor? Technically that's not splitting atoms, but it's joining them together which is even neater

BTW, if you really did have a proper obsession with nuclear materials and WMDs, you'd be in Guantanamo Bay by now.

sehrgut

Tue Oct 09 2007, 03:33PM

Registered Member #1017 Joined: Fri Sept 21 2007, 09:08PM
Location:
Posts: 24

A Farnsworth Fusor is on my long-term to-do list . . . *sigh*

Bored Chemist

Tue Oct 09 2007, 06:37PM

Registered Member #193 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 07:04AM
Location: sheffield
Posts: 1022

Last I heard was that the "boy scout" was in jail for stealing smoke detectors.

Marko

Tue Oct 09 2007, 07:05PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

The way I am thinking of measuring if any atoms were split, is to encase the actual (victim) substance in an airtight container, applying the high energy pulse, and weighing it before, and after the pulse. I figure if I can split enough atoms, a small amount of those atoms will be converted into energy, therefore making the weight change slightly.

As I think micrograms of fissioning material would produce enough neutrons and gamma radiation to kill you or anyone who approaches it in minutes, so no.
BTW, my avatar is a nuclear bomb too.

I have a (relatively) simple question... Would it be possible to split any significant amount of atoms, in any material, using a high energy electrical pulse, such as one from a device using very high energy pulse capacitors?

Again no, at least not at kitchen scale.

Electrons simply can't really interact atomic nucleus in any such mean, and only indirect approaches can be used.

How it is generally done is to dump like 500 megajoules of energy from marx generators into space of a human thumb, and nuclear fusion occurs simply due to extreme heat and pressure invoked by X rays from superheated plasma.

Burst of neutrons produced by fusion may now cause fissions in surrounding materials, and that's it.

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