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Capper

Wed Sept 05 2007, 12:58AM

Registered Member #914 Joined: Fri Jul 20 2007, 06:22PM
Location: South Bend, IN
Posts: 85

For those of you following the threads on Pupman..........

What do you think of Jeff's comments on free disclosure of your project ideas, schematics and code?

I'll wait a while until I post my own thoughts....

Scott

Chris Russell

Wed Sept 05 2007, 06:06AM

... not Russel!
Registered Member #1 Joined: Thu Jan 26 2006, 12:18AM
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Posts: 1052

I think Matt D. summed up my feelings about the matter quite nicely. Some people have other aspirations than wealth. I admire people like Terry, Steve, and the countless others on this site and the TCML that have labored for the benefit of all. I am certain that I am not alone in this admiration.

This particular type of argument has been going on for years. It comes up every so often, and a bunch of people get rubbed the wrong way. The commercial aspect of coiling just doesn't sit well with a lot of people, especially when non-disclosure agreements, copyrights, and patents come into the fray. That's sort of predictable; sites like 4hv.org and the TCML are meant to promote the free exchange of ideas and information, and patents and copyrights are designed to inhibit the exchange of ideas and information.

For what it's worth, many people here on 4hv have opened the doors of opportunity (financially and otherwise) for themselves by pursuing their interests, and helping others to pursue theirs. If everyone were holding back information for fear of giving away a potentially profitable idea, 4hv would not exist, and IMHO, the world would be a poorer place for it.

Steve Conner

Wed Sept 05 2007, 09:04AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

I left Pupman a while back for 4hv, and I don't read it any more, which sums up my feelings on the matter. :P

It does worry me, since electronic design is my day job, and I'm under two or three NDAs with various companies right now. The way I try to handle it is to make a very clear distinction between my commercial work and my hobby projects. I try not to write about my work on public forums, since it's commercially sensitive, and I try not to make money out of things connected with 4hv, since it's against the spirit of things. I also try to decide right from the start whether a project will be commercial or hobby.

I usually manage that just fine, except when it comes to selling Tesla coil systems. Then it all gets a bit unclear and uncomfortable. I've built Tesla coil equipment for commercial clients that I'm not allowed to write about, well, if I want any more business from them in the future, that is. :-X

All I will say is that I've always tried to make sure that these systems are based on my own work with Mjolnir and the OLTC2, rather than just copying other people's designs. However, one guy refused to deal with me on the grounds that the driver circuit for Mjolnir had been published in the public domain: he actually wanted to buy the intellectual property rights. But since it started out as a hobby project, I had already made the decision to give them away.

I haven't published anything new in ages, but I have some ideas for hobby and ham projects coming up that should be good

Dr. Drone

Wed Sept 05 2007, 03:31PM

Registered Member #290 Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 08:24PM
Location:
Posts: 1673

Capper

Wed Sept 05 2007, 06:36PM

Registered Member #914 Joined: Fri Jul 20 2007, 06:22PM
Location: South Bend, IN
Posts: 85

Well,

I have seen a common theme on several forums lately.

I've seen the same thing at work.

Someone takes credit for the accomplishments of a whole group of people, and then
tries to make money from it.

At work, if someone takes the group's idea and applies for a patent, then he may get a few bucks and a pat on the head, or maybe a promotion later for being one of the "innovators" in the company. The problem is that the rest of the team now hates that person and won't help him with any projects (if they can help it) for the rest of their careers.

An interesting twist on this theme is the FIRST High School robotics competition. Dean Camen gets thousands of engineers to volunteer their time mentoring the students building robots, and Dean sets up the competition objectives to solve problems that he can use for his own business. Where do you think the ideas for the Segway PT came from?

It's not all bad for the average electronic hobbyist however. Circuit Cellar gets some microprocessor company to give out development samples for a "contest", and the company knows that will get the engineers and computer programmers used to using their parts and maybe use them in a large volume product later. The poison pill, however, is software companies like Keil that give out "crippleware" versions of compilers that won't work after the contest ends. Some people will use the contest to market
their own product by making a bunch of kits available after the contest ends - not a bad idea.

I've been trading this for that for many years and, like most of you, I like to show off cool projects. The internet forums and personal web sites are a great way to meet people from around the world and share ideas. There's no way I could have built most of the gadgets I have around the house without the help of people on forums like this. That's why I don't mind giving out my schematics and code. I learned with WinTesla that you don't want to try and make money off of a low-volume hobby. It's just too much work, and too many headaches.

Jeff thinks Steve could be a millionaire by now, I don't see how - but if Jeff thinks Steve's ideas are that good, then KVA should step up to the plate and hire him when he graduates rather than just capitalize on his ideas and gloat over their business awards.

Just my 2ct.

Scott

thedatastream

Wed Sept 05 2007, 08:23PM

Registered Member #505 Joined: Sun Nov 19 2006, 06:42PM
Location: Yorkshire!
Posts: 329

Since I (and many) don't subscribe to Pupman this thread and the emails are difficult to understand out of context.

What is the summary of the discussion that has been going on?

HV Enthusiast

Wed Sept 05 2007, 09:35PM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068

Firstly, in all fairness to Jeff, we don't know what kind of topology he is using, so it wouldn't be right to speculate on what he may have "lifted" from various newsgroups / websites. Lets not falsely accuse anyone of stealing someone
else's ideas without knowing all the facts first.

Also, as much as some would like to believe otherwise, double resonant switching topologies used in the generation of high voltage have been around long before Jimmy Hynes proposed his double resonant idea for Tesla coils. Many solid state
X-Ray power supplies use an almost identical topology to DRSSTCs, except the output is regulated and used for an X-Ray tube as opposed to producing arcs. So, DRSSTC switching technology is nothing new.

Finally, regarding commercial endeavors on Tesla coils, I frequently get accused of being money hungry by selling books and boards, but in all honesty, its done for the fame and glory as well as providing a single source reference book on the topic. Anyone who thinks i'm making a profit by selling these books or boards is quite mistaken, especially considering the time put into authoring them and designing the boards. Sure, i make a few bucks, but it is usually enough to cover lunch at Burger King!

Reaching

Wed Sept 05 2007, 09:39PM

Registered Member #76 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 10:04AM
Location: Hemer, Germany
Posts: 458

ha lol, i can write books about this.

i made the mistake to share not only my shematics from all tesla coils i worked on. i even thought that it would be great to share the board layouts for people who want to rebuild the exact 1:1 design. that was the biggest failure i ever made, cause several types of my legendary sstc2 where around ebay and co and seller earned good money with my board layouts, my thoughts, my works!

thats why i dont want to make any, ANY! commecial thoughts about everything related to my hobby. with some e mails i could convince people to stop selling my work by threaten them. not the fine way but it worked.

the same happend to my video files published on my site. without giving my agreement i saw them on youtube and co and thought about shutting down my whole website completely (forum with 230 members included)

Yeah EVR , i understand what you are mean. im an hobbyist Author here in germany with a few science fiction and fantasy related books on the market. its more excessive work on books, especially specialised topic etc. i know that noone can live from the profit of selling these, ...
and its great that youÂ´ve done a step that few people would have done cause of fear and costs. i know how difficult it is to find a publisher for books related on only one topic. but you are a self publisher right?

Capper

Wed Sept 05 2007, 10:23PM

Registered Member #914 Joined: Fri Jul 20 2007, 06:22PM
Location: South Bend, IN
Posts: 85

thedatastream wrote ...

Since I (and many) don't subscribe to Pupman this thread and the emails are difficult to understand out of context.

What is the summary of the discussion that has been going on?

You can follow the discussion without subscribing.

Link

EVR wrote ...
Finally, regarding commercial endeavors on Tesla coils, I frequently get accused of being money hungry by selling books and boards,

I purchased one of your driver boards for my first SSTC - and it worked very well - then I designed my own driver board for the MIDI coils. But I'm not going to try and patent it either, 'cause it uses some of your circuit ideas.

Scott

HV Enthusiast

Wed Sept 05 2007, 10:51PM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068

wrote ...

I purchased one of your driver boards for my first SSTC - and it worked very well - then I designed my own driver board for the MIDI coils. But I'm not going to try and patent it either, 'cause it uses some of your circuit ideas.

Scott

Scott,

The circuit ideas in my book are nothing new or special - just standard solid state switching topology and digital logic control. My books deal more with showing the "whole" package, both mechanical and electrical as its put together.
Sure, if i saw someone selling miniBrute coils which were identical to that in my book, i'd take issue, but use of the actual circuits etc..., there are no limitations there.

Dan

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