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help me create sparks

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oliver cook

Mon Jun 18 2007, 09:08PM

Registered Member #844 Joined: Mon Jun 18 2007, 09:00PM
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Posts: 2

hi, im gonna get straight to the point here lol. im kinda an amateur electrician ( which means i like to put stuff together and try and make stuff :P). ive been trying for around 2 weeks now to create about a 1 inch spark for an ignition system in my spud cannon. ive been looking over all the web and found information on flybacks. however i cant seem to get mine to work. i cant find one old enough and i cant seem to find a transistor that will work for the newer flybacks. i also read something on "mosfet" circuits now i know next to nothing about electronics lol. im pretty much just trying to make a 1 inch spark and hope this will give me the interest in electronics im looking for. if anyone here can help me out dont hesitate to email me.

ty guys!!

Terry Fritz

Mon Jun 18 2007, 11:27PM

Registered Member #393 Joined: Tue Apr 18 2006, 12:30AM
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Posts: 297

I think all you want for the spud gun is a replacement Piezo starter kit...

For sparks, you should look into automotive ignition coils:

That will certainly get you started going in this sport

Terry

GreySoul

Tue Jun 19 2007, 02:53AM

Registered Member #546 Joined: Fri Feb 23 2007, 11:43PM
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 239

you do NOT need a 1" arc to ignite an explosive mixture. You need a hot arc, but not a big arc. in fact, any arc is probably hot enough, at just about any length. a 1/128" spark from a piezo lighter ignitor will suffice. You can get really like piezo sparker for outdoor BBQ grills. I used a Coleman ignitor for years before I switched to pneumatics.

-Doug

EDY19

Tue Jun 19 2007, 03:28AM

Registered Member #105 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:54PM
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Posts: 408

For my spud gun (which has since been retired) I used an ignition coil with its primary in series with a cameras xenon tube- so when the button was pushed, the capacitor was discharged through the primary via the flash tube. It worked very well... Although a home wound smaller transformer may work just as well and take up much less space.

...

Tue Jun 19 2007, 03:40AM

Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445

Jeez guys, we have someone that wants into the hobby and you are all telling him to buy a piezo igniter

You could use an ignition coil, just give it 12v and then you stop giving it 12v it should make a nice spark.

From there, you can use a flyback driver based on the not-so-trusty 2n3055 transistor, the parts could be had for under $20 from any half decent electronic supply house--assuming that you can find a TV to rip the flyback out of.

CT2

Tue Jun 19 2007, 03:43AM

Registered Member #180 Joined: Thu Feb 16 2006, 02:12AM
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 187

If your looking for an igniter for your spud gun, you can make a good one out of disposable cameras. Go to Blacks or any other photo developing store and ask for all their left over used disposable cameras. I got like 30 one time when I asked, don't be shy. Then take them all apart, be careful or you'll give yourself a nice shock. All the components needed to make the igniter are on the boards, you'll need one of the transformers and the resistor and transistor to go with it. You'll also need as many of the small capacitors used for the ignition transformer as you can get, aswell as the rectifying diodes. Put it all together and you get a nice 1.5V step up to 300V then that is stepped up to as much as you like (depends how many caps and diodes you get, which depends how many cameras you got

). It sounds like a alot but its seriously stupid easy, if you wanna go with this just ask and I can give you all the details on how to hook all the components up.

I should note that the sparks in that pic are from the igniter dumping a cap into a flyback, so you get really long sparks. But the igniter itself (first pic) makes long enough and hot enough sparks for a spud gun (tested).

DrZoidberg

Tue Jun 19 2007, 04:28AM

Registered Member #350 Joined: Mon Mar 27 2006, 05:14PM
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Posts: 106

You can also use just one single disposable camera and a piezo igniter to get a powerful spark.
The camera contains a big capacitor that stores a lot of energy. But it is only charged to about 300V. So it can't produce a spark by itself.
But you can hook up the big capacitor and also the piezo ignitor to a 1/5" spark gap in such a way that when you press the piezo the spark gets triggered by the HV of the piezo and once the spark has been ignited, the big 300V capacitor will then discharge through the spark. I did that once. It gives a very bright spark.
And you don't even need to disassamble the camera electronics.

Shaun

Tue Jun 19 2007, 03:33PM

Registered Member #690 Joined: Tue May 08 2007, 03:47AM
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 616

I used the ZVS driver with a DC flyback for awhile in my spudgun (I prefer Produce Accelerator, it sounds safer).

Remember that if you can build a device to get multiple inch sparks, or maybe even one inch, use two or three spark gaps in the entrance, middle, and end of your ignition chamber. As long as the gaps are in series NOT parallel, you will dramatically increase the burn rate as you create three explosions at once.

I actually like DrZoidbergs radically simple idea on using a piezo with a camera flash, in fact that's exactly how the camera circuit gets 300V through the Xe tube, with a multiple kilovolt pulse. I intend to try it after work today. The sparks wont be longer, but I'd say with a cap discharge like that your chance of a misfire would be about 1000X less! My Kodak MaxFlash camera's circuit has a 160uF cap which charges to 320V; thats more than 8J of power!!

DrZoidberg

Tue Jun 19 2007, 05:25PM

Registered Member #350 Joined: Mon Mar 27 2006, 05:14PM
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Posts: 106

For that to work you have to connect it so that the piezo can not discharge through the 300V cap but only through the spark gap.
For that I used an inductor made from a ferrite ring with a few turns of wire around it. I think I used a 2cm ferrite ring and around 5 turns.
Connect the cap, the inductor and the spark gap in series. Then connect the piezo parallel to the spark gap. If it doesn't work increase the number or turns or make the spark gap smaller. Don't use more turns then necessary since it will also slow down the discharge of the cap.
Another option is to use a string of 4007 diodes. But they tend to brake. At least they broke when I discharged a 1500uF cap @ 330V through them. So I used the inductor instead.

oliver cook

Thu Jun 21 2007, 09:50PM

Registered Member #844 Joined: Mon Jun 18 2007, 09:00PM
Location:
Posts: 2

wow thanks for all the great reply's im definitely going to try a few of these ideas. i also hooked up the flyback i found to a circuit the other day ( one of the modern 9 pin ones) and it started making a faint whining sound. now i used a 2n3055 and i already heard that they arent very good for the newer flybacks so i wasn't expecting it to work. however i would like to ask does that mean i have found the right pins for the coils? and can anyone give me some info on a decent driver circuit for a newer flyback.

anyway cheers for all the great reply's ill get back to yas when i can.

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