If you need assistance, please send an email to forum at 4hv dot org. To ensure your email is not marked as spam, please include the phrase "4hv help" in the subject line. You can also find assistance via IRC, at irc.shadowworld.net, room #hvcomm.
Support 4hv.org!
Donate:
4hv.org is hosted on a dedicated server. Unfortunately, this server costs and we rely on the help of site members to keep 4hv.org running. Please consider donating. We will place your name on the thanks list and you'll be helping to keep 4hv.org alive and free for everyone. Members whose names appear in red bold have donated recently. Green bold denotes those who have recently donated to keep the server carbon neutral.
Special Thanks To:
Aaron Holmes
Aaron Wheeler
Adam Horden
Alan Scrimgeour
Andre
Andrew Haynes
Anonymous000
asabase
Austin Weil
barney
Barry
Bert Hickman
Bill Kukowski
Blitzorn
Brandon Paradelas
Bruce Bowling
BubeeMike
Byong Park
Cesiumsponge
Chris F.
Chris Hooper
Corey Worthington
Derek Woodroffe
Dalus
Dan Strother
Daniel Davis
Daniel Uhrenholt
datasheetarchive
Dave Billington
Dave Marshall
David F.
Dennis Rogers
drelectrix
Dr. John Gudenas
Dr. Spark
E.TexasTesla
eastvoltresearch
Eirik Taylor
Erik Dyakov
Erlend^SE
Finn Hammer
Firebug24k
GalliumMan
Gary Peterson
George Slade
GhostNull
Gordon Mcknight
Graham Armitage
Grant
GreySoul
Henry H
IamSmooth
In memory of Leo Powning
Jacob Cash
James Howells
James Pawson
Jeff Greenfield
Jeff Thomas
Jesse Frost
Jim Mitchell
jlr134
Joe Mastroianni
John Forcina
John Oberg
John Willcutt
Jon Newcomb
klugesmith
Leslie Wright
Lutz Hoffman
Mads Barnkob
Martin King
Mats Karlsson
Matt Gibson
Matthew Guidry
mbd
Michael D'Angelo
Mikkel
mileswaldron
mister_rf
Neil Foster
Nick de Smith
Nick Soroka
nicklenorp
Nik
Norman Stanley
Patrick Coleman
Paul Brodie
Paul Jordan
Paul Montgomery
Ped
Peter Krogen
Peter Terren
PhilGood
Richard Feldman
Robert Bush
Royce Bailey
Scott Fusare
Scott Newman
smiffy
Stella
Steven Busic
Steve Conner
Steve Jones
Steve Ward
Sulaiman
Thomas Coyle
Thomas A. Wallace
Thomas W
Timo
Torch
Ulf Jonsson
vasil
Vaxian
vladi mazzilli
wastehl
Weston
William Kim
William N.
William Stehl
Wesley Venis
The aforementioned have contributed financially to the continuing triumph of 4hv.org. They are deserving of my most heartfelt thanks.
Registered Member #15
Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068
Well, i'm getting back into high power rocketry after about a 15 year hiatus, and i'm finding everything has gone to hell in a handbasket. Apparently, the ATF has issued all kinds of new regulations in recent years and you need a low explosives users permit to use black powder, igniters, electric matches, etc... in the rockets. Permit is $100-200 which sucks in itself, but you all need to meet with an ATF agent and show a proper storage facility for the explosives (with the local fire marshall involved as well) to get the permit. Which means, those who live in townhouses, etc... are screwed. There are variances you can file for on the storage requirement, but its a major pain in the ass.
Funny thing is, from the muzzle loading i've done, i can purchase and store up to 50lbs of black powder for that with no questions or permit required. Yet for a lousy 2g of black powder for an ejection charge (for example) requires this crap!
Registered Member #56
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445
I feel your pain, I have about $500 in motor hardware that I can only use if I take it to an organized launch and use their permit
We do have a large enough property to be able to legally store our magazine, however to get a LEUP you have to let the ATF search your property whenever it wants, which my dad was not happy with.
However, there is a workaround.... You get a N2O/PVC hybrid motor, and homegrown igniters or flashbulbs.
You can get legacy hardware from people like PML for using flashbulbs, or make your own with a firefox e-match kit (about 2/3 down the page). Technically, you have to dip the igniters on site (since you are not allowed to store/transport them) but the chances of getting caught with a few igniters... I have had very good luck with the 'elv conductive' mix, as long as the head isn't cracked I have not had one fail. Just make sure to continuity test every one after the charges are packed, as they are extremely delicate.
The motor is harder to do, however there are a few companies making them. The 'standard' is to get a Hypertek motor, but the ground support equipment is quite expensive (~$1000 if you were to go out and buy everything new). As a solution to that, West Coast hybrids, RATT Works and Sky Ripper Systems have modified the Urbanski-Colburn design to greatly reduce the ground support needed--the SRS motor only needs a N2O tank, solenoid, a few fittings, and a conventional 12v launch system.
BTW, some decent links for staying up to date with the legal are here and here
Do you have a HPR permit because where I live I just have a L1 Jr NAR permit and go to local launches to shoot off my rockets I have currently launched my largest rocket was a cluster of 5 H and 1 the middle was airstarted my my G-wiz MC2 computer. I dont have the truble with the permits because im a Jr member but soon when I can keep my fule grains I will.
Registered Member #63
Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425
Rocketry76 wrote ...
Do you have a HPR permit because where I live I just have a L1 Jr NAR permit and go to local launches to shoot off my rockets I have currently launched my largest rocket was a cluster of 5 H and 1 the middle was airstarted my my G-wiz MC2 computer. I dont have the truble with the permits because im a Jr member but soon when I can keep my fule grains I will.
This site is powered by e107, which is released under the GNU GPL License. All work on this site, except where otherwise noted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. By submitting any information to this site, you agree that anything submitted will be so licensed. Please read our Disclaimer and Policies page for information on your rights and responsibilities regarding this site.
Rocketry and Home Land Security
