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Signal generator output conversion to 2KV

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Energyman

Tue May 22 2007, 12:20AM

Registered Member #788 Joined: Sat May 19 2007, 02:31AM
Location:
Posts: 10

Hmm,

seems like I am getting a bit of riddicule for my belief systems here. Bored Chemist - it won't make tea but you could be warm on the others. But discussions about my "foolish" beliefs seem to be used as a smoke screen to cover up the fact that nobody seems to have a handle on this problem.

Some are saying it can be done. I have one offer from somebody to do it. Others are saying it can't be done or it is impractical. If nothing else my little challenge has got some brain cells working. If you knew what I knew you would understand my motivation to see it through.

If you all agree that it can't be done I will piss off and leave you good people in peace. If there is a solution, then I would be very grateful.

Bjørn

Tue May 22 2007, 01:14AM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

You need to give us more information. How do you define square wave and what is the exact design of your coil.

Bored Chemist made it very clear that a 50% duty cycle square wave at into a 10 Ohm coil with little inductance is going to require hardware that I am sure you can't afford. Just have a look at the Ebay link. You are going to need a significant building just to house the generators.

So either your duty cycle must be very small or your coil must be of a design that makes sure there is no current to speak of.

HV Enthusiast

Tue May 22 2007, 01:29AM

Registered Member #15 Joined: Thu Feb 02 2006, 01:11PM
Location:
Posts: 3068

Yep, you need to give us all the requirements. Here is a list to get your started. Fill it out and then we can be of more help . . .

1. Output Voltage
2. Load Specifications
3. Frequency (PRF)
4. Pulsewidth
5. Waveform information (type of waveform, risetime, falltime)
6. Allowable Pulse Droop
7. Interpulse variability

and so on . . .

Energyman

Tue May 22 2007, 05:23AM

Registered Member #788 Joined: Sat May 19 2007, 02:31AM
Location:
Posts: 10

EastVoltResearch wrote ...

Yep, you need to give us all the requirements. Here is a list to get your started. Fill it out and then we can be of more help . . .

1. Output Voltage 0-12 v variable using my generator
2. Load Specifications 13.1 ohm but I could redo the coil with resistance wire to get up to 10K without spending the rest of my life winding.
3. Frequency (PRF) 1.2-1.5MHz my research points to a number around 1.3 so I might not need the top of the range if this proves problematic
4. Pulsewidth. Not specified by my equipment.
5. Waveform information (type of waveform, risetime, falltime). The output is a square wave but if this could be accurately converted to a sine wave, then this should work for my purposes.
6. Allowable Pulse Droop. Don't know (can we use viagra?) seriously this is outside my knowledge
7. Interpulse variability . Ditto 6

and so on . . .

As you may have gathered I am venturing into new territory and many of the parameters are open to flexibility until I prove otherwise - that's why I need to experiment. Without getting into specifics and openning myself up to more riddicule, I am planning to use this equipment to excite an object at its resonant frequency with a specific result in mind.

AndrewM

Tue May 22 2007, 05:52AM

Registered Member #49 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:05AM
Location: Bigass Pile of Penguins
Posts: 362

6. Allowable Pulse Droop. Don't know (can we use viagra?) seriously this is outside my knowledge

ha! at least you've got a sense of humor. have you researched halbach arrays at all with respect to your project?

Steve Ward

Tue May 22 2007, 05:32PM

Registered Member #146 Joined: Sun Feb 12 2006, 04:21AM
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 1055

13.1 ohm but I could redo the coil with resistance wire to get up to 10K without spending the rest of my life winding.

The solution is not to add resistance to the system, just use a lower input voltage (not 2kV!). Trust me, the effect is the same, except the latter is much easier (no more insane power supply requirements). You shouldnt need an EE degree to see this... in fact any good physisist should see why (your whatever waves shouldnt be able to tell what power supply was used to create them, or at least thats how my world of EM works).

The output is a square wave but if this could be accurately converted to a sine wave, then this should work for my purposes.

Wait, so it must be either a square wave, or a sine wave? but cant be something inbetween? Who gives a damn what the actual waveform is as long as you *know* what it is? Or can your scalar waves only be generated by these 2 specific inputs? Seriously, this comes down to just being an analytical thinker...

I cant help but be a skeptic when i see threads like this : person has hugely ambitious project (usually requireing something that they dont realize is incredibly difficult), wants to make some groundbreaking physics discovery, and finally, has very lacking knowledge of basic electronics (which a physics class would have covered).

Bored Chemist

Tue May 22 2007, 05:59PM

Registered Member #193 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 07:04AM
Location: sheffield
Posts: 1022

I note with mild amusement that someone "humbly" asks this forum how to put 2KV across 10 ohms without knowing how to calculate the power required and then, when we point out what reality does to his dreams he says that "But discussions about my "foolish" beliefs seem to be used as a smoke screen to cover up the fact that nobody seems to have a handle on this problem."

Can I ask you to think for a moment about who doesn't "have a handle on this problem"?
I think that the problem is that, while some folks on this site probably could design a system to deliver the original requirements, they are not going to so much as sketch a circuit when they believe that the whole idea is nonsense. Not only is it utterly impractical from an economic point of view, but it's in breach of the same laws of physics that they learned when they found out how to build kit like this.

I suggest you try again; ask for an idea of how you could put 20V across the coil.

Do an experiment. Measure things.

If you get any results that don't tally with the rules of physics come back and tell us about them.

BTW,I accept that this advice simply shouldn't work. "Don't include a link to your website if you want to be taken seriously on a science forum."
I know we should treat the post at face value and ignore any other aspects just as we should ignore poor spelling. The problem is that, while many of us are scientists, all of us were humans first. Humans get biased really easily.

Energyman

Wed May 23 2007, 05:22AM

Registered Member #788 Joined: Sat May 19 2007, 02:31AM
Location:
Posts: 10

Hi,

Mia culpa. I should have paid more attention in Physics class (I have forgotten more than I learned). I should have presented the problem differently and I should have not mentioned subjects which lie outside the accepted belief system of this forum. I have paid the price by feeling like a vegetarian in the carnivore's ball but I have also learned quite a lot. Thanks to the generosity of one or two of your members I am getting closer to my goal of taking my already successful experiments up to the next level - working some compromises into my over ambitious initial specs. Thanks for the links to the generator. I don't think it will fit in my shed so I won't be bidding against you. Thanks to those that have offered genuine input which I am sure will be beneficial to those that are helping me off forum.

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Wed May 23 2007, 05:28AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

Okay, I'm gonna end this right now with this link:

If you really believe in this, then this is all you need to know to get started. But I have to tell you right off, the output waveform is just a dioded clamped LC ringdown exhibited by any Tesla coil. This is a garden variety air core transformer, nothing magical or mystical about it.

If you plan on transmitting any magical wave that only propigates in one direction, that's fine, but I have to say, there is no piece of equipment in existance that I know of that will be able to detect that special wave, let alone discriminate between real RF and the wave you want to proove is 'scalar' or whatever that means. Long story short, even IF you had something that generated a wave in one direction, you're not going to be able to detect it.

Matt.

Oh, and by the way, those 'Soliton pulses' are just the HARMONICS of the ringdown. Check it out on a spectrum analyzer some time, you'll see what I mean. OR you could check it out in PSpice.

Steve Conner

Wed May 23 2007, 11:11AM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

I agree. I have studied most of the caduceus coil experiments and come to the conclusion that the results can all be explained by ordinary EM waves. I'll sum up my argument below:

- The cancellation in the caduceus coil arrangement is not perfect, so it will radiate some "ordinary" radio waves in addition to whatever mystic healing energies it's claimed to give off.

- Metal shielding is not perfect, and will let some radio waves through.

- Radio receivers, even cheap ones, are extremely sensitive and will pick up ANYTHING.

As an example, I have a shortwave receiver at home, and a RF signal generator too. The receiver is easily capable of picking up the signal from the generator, which has a metal case, even when the generator has nothing plugged into the output socket. So here we have a system in a shielded case, with no antenna at all! and it can still radiate some sort of mysterious waves...

And yet I don't go crazy researching the effect. I've had a ham licence since I was about thirteen and I know from practical experience that that's just how radio waves behave. They are surprisingly good at finding their way round shielding, but you can stop them if you try hard enough.

As another demonstration, try putting your cell phone in the microwave, closing the door, and calling it from another phone. I bet it still rings. How did the radio waves get inside the shielded metal box, which must be shielded, or the microwaves would get out and cook you! That must be scalar waves too, right? Now take the same cell phone on a subway train. If scalar waves go through anything, how come it stopped working?

The answer of course is just that the case of the microwave didn't offer enough attenuation to stop the cell phone signal (probably because the choke joint round the door is optimised for the 2.4GHz cooking frequency) but 50 feet of damp earth did.

Finally, JLN's bizarre "soliton" waveforms can probably be explained by the voltage-dependent interelectrode capacitances of MOSFETs.

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