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PSoC ISSP Compatiblity

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McFluffin

Fri Mar 23 2007, 05:48AM

Registered Member #119 Joined: Fri Feb 10 2006, 06:26AM
Location: USA
Posts: 114

I have been trying to figure out why ISSP doesn't work for my CY826443 chip. I have a mag card reader dev kit, and am told that it can only be programmed if I have the older ICE-4000 instead of the ICE cube or mini-prog which I posses. Does anyone know why the ISSP doesn't work for this model? PSoC programmer says it isn't supported for this model. However, the ISSP documentation from Cypress' web site seems to indicate ISSP is avaible on this model, so I don't see how this would be a problem. And, besides the ICE for which I have two of the same 29 series flex pods, I only have one actual PSoC which is the aforementioned chip. I talked to someone who spoke of porting the sample project to an updated PSoC (such as the 29 series), but I don't think he ever finished it. So, even if I bought a newer chip, it would require me a bit of work to get the project working. Any thoughts?

Carbon_Rod

Sat Mar 24 2007, 03:22AM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

Defective silicon for old chips,
Cypress should be ashamed of their product support. Most of the chip programmers are extremely sensitive to damage so avoid the ISSP with prototypes if you can.

In terms of reliability issues, the external programming level regulator/chirping-driver is archaic and lame. How they ever became a mainstream supplier is a mystery. We evaluated their line for industrial purposes and found that the 32.768kHz powered PLL based clock still does not seem to have working crystal lockup prevention (even in their non faulty lines their WDT is crap unless the chip is already running.)

The only thing they offer is on-chip temperature calculation, C code library, and an open USB vid number you can use.

Unless you really need the analog bus and the libs, it would be advisable to try AVR, PIC, or even Motorola.

The easy GUI they offer can cripple a project as "write-once" code.

McFluffin

Sat Mar 24 2007, 05:05PM

Registered Member #119 Joined: Fri Feb 10 2006, 06:26AM
Location: USA
Posts: 114

Hehe, someone doesn't like Cypress :) Thanks for the reply. Anyway, I was at a PSoC Express seminar where they gave me a free dev board and programmer. I'm going to have to believe you on that programmer sensitivity. Three out of maybe twenty of us had programmers die on us! I was one of them. On the bright side, I got a second development board since they said it wasn't any good without a programmer and they had to open up a second box.
I'm not sure what you mean by avoid protoypes. You mean circuits that are still under heavy development? How am I suppose to program them then? Should the ICE be a lot more stable? One flex pod for the ICE costs about as much as 2 or 3 of the cheap programmers. I can also do ISSP off of the ICE. Do you know if that is sensitive as well? I wouldn't be happy if the ICE stopped working....
I have two interests in them. First, I have some development boards and an ICE for them, which makes them convienent for me to use. Second, their PSoC Express tool can let me create some simple projects very quickly, which can be nice for certain things. I can go and add C code into the pregenerated code to add in more advanced things if need be.
However, I am more familiar with PICs. Unfortunatly, I've had loads of trouble getting ICSP to work, which really annoys me. Also, I haven't really though that PICs had good library support. The only PIC programmer I have that works right now is a JDM. It doesn't seem to supply enough power, so when I do the ICSP I have to do it really slowly. I could probably put some capacitors on it to help or something, but never really looked into it. So, if anyone wants to point me to some good PIC tools, that would be nice too. I mostly work with 18 series PICs, and like 40 pin versions as that gives me a lot of pins to work with. So far the JDM is the most universal programmer I can find, even though it is the least expensive, which I find kind of odd. I guess what I really should do is get an ICE for microchip as well if I really want to use their products.

Carbon_Rod

Sat Mar 24 2007, 09:38PM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

For the 18xxxx series there is a free USB loader (code) that allows low voltage programming on the fly with just your PC and a cable. As for issp, just look at the pin out for a given chip and build a plug adapter for the programmer (10 minutes.)

IIRC it was the Cypress chips in the defective Fujitsu drives a few years ago.

I was trying to explain how their programmer works and why its unreliable for production -- it requires external precision timing to regulate internal chip levels (the only manufacture I know that does this), timed mode switch after a reset, and ludicrous initialization routines. Any board space or part count saved is irrelevant if its unreliable.

The programmers usually use the chip line too -- the probability for failure only increases.

McFluffin

Sun Mar 25 2007, 04:04AM

Registered Member #119 Joined: Fri Feb 10 2006, 06:26AM
Location: USA
Posts: 114

"For the 18xxxx series there is a free USB loader (code) that allows low voltage programming on the fly with just your PC and a cable. As for issp, just look at the pin out for a given chip and build a plug adapter for the programmer (10 minutes.)"
Would this mean I could do it in circuit then? The whole point is that I don't to ben pins and waste time by removing it from the circuit. I can't find that USB programmer you mentioned. Can you give a link? It might be good enough if I just get somethign that has a stronger ICSP link, ie one that requires a DC power input on the board perhaps.
Theres still the problem of why I can't program it, I'm not clear on this answer if you happen to know it. Why doesn't the software support the older PSoC? Is it just something that could be done in software, or does it have a different voltage level or something? I tried fiddling with the programmer's .dat files a bit, but couldn't figure out a way to trick it to program the chip. It could, however, read:
Target Device Silicon: 03, Family/Die: 00, Major Rev: N does not match chosen Device
Which seems to indicate that it could read off of the chip as when I read off some of the other chips I have, it seems to pick up other devices and correctly identifies them (ie 296666 uc). For some reason, the 26xxx configuration files don't seem to specify the chips I have.
There is an open source programmer called the umUSB (for PSoC, not PIC) which uses the CYP open source programming software. This doesn't seem to work with the mini-prog or my ICE though it sounds like. I tried hooking up the ICE cube and it didn't detect it.

Carbon_Rod

Sun Mar 25 2007, 12:06PM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

The funny part is your programmer may still work intermittently:

1.) A battery power source is disconnected and reconnected. (the WDT+PLL issue)
2.) Windows firewall, WACOM brand drivers, Modem and other serial devices are off.
3.) The IDE is started after the device is plugged in (restart IDE before you try again.)
4.) Try removing the device, reset the programmer, and try again. (the chip power up time issue lock-out.)

When they fail it can happen intermittently at first (power level damage to programmer like a small reversed supply voltage spike.)

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