Ambient Energy LED lighting contest! / General Science and Electronics / Forums

Forums

4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics

« Previous topic | Next topic »

Ambient Energy LED lighting contest!

first previous 9 10 11 12 next last

Move Thread

LAN_403

Marko

Mon Feb 26 2007, 10:30PM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

Hi Reaching

One problem I imagine with seriesed earth batteries is that we have electrolyte (dirt) also between pieces of dissimilar metals we put in series, and it would be a sort of short (big loss and electrochemical corrosion while battery isn't in use). You would have to separate individual batteries with something nonconductive wich isn't very practical.

But, you can also use all in paralell if there are only 2 metals, and boost their voltage with a germanium joule-theif.

I currently have a bad flu, so I'm sort of disabled at time.

Once I get myself fixed I may come up with some new ideas..

ShawnLG

Mon Feb 26 2007, 10:56PM

Registered Member #286 Joined: Mon Mar 06 2006, 04:52AM
Location:
Posts: 399

"ive heard from generators powered from the heat that organic waste produces."
A stirling engine can extract this energy.

There is one particular source of energy that I want to light an LED with and that is from far infared light. Are there any exotic solar cells that can convert this wavelength into electricity?

Bjørn

Mon Feb 26 2007, 11:49PM

Registered Member #27 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 02:20AM
Location: Hyperborea
Posts: 2058

There are several types of PV cells that are made for IR use. Some are also quite efficient at over 30%. There are not many companies that produces them and demand utstrips supply by far (even more than normal PV cells) so the ones I have seen are very expensive. The power density is a lot higher than for normal PV cells so a small panel can generate 1kW or more.

If you mean far IR like what a human radiates then you are better off with peltier elements or something like that.

Tue Feb 27 2007, 12:42AM

Banned on April 7, 2007
Registered Member #277 Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157

My wife wasnâ€™t pleased with all the wires laying around the side yard from my earth battery demo (I have a field in the country were Iâ€™m suppose to confine all my messy inventive stuff), so I revampted the earth battery to take up less room in the side yard, a 2nd generation version. Trying to stick as much as I can to the origianal â€˜waste energyâ€™ concept, I retrieved 20 soda cans and 20 plastic cups from an after-party trash can. 1st pic shows the soda cans and cups. 2nd pic shows the piece of ground and plastic cups. 3rd pic shows the cups inserted into the ground. 4th pic shows the cans filled with moist dirt with a short length of bare copper wire (from the 1st earth battery project) inserted into the dirt with clips connecting all cells in series. Concerning power, this 2nd generation earth battery outputs a respectable 10.76V @ 3.16ma, enough to light 1 jumbo LED pretty bright, or 8 jumbos at lesser intensity. As far as cost, it can't get much cheaper than digging through the trash and using soda cans to produce long-term power. I purchased nothing for this demo, not counting the alligator clips that I already had from months ago. From past experience with earth batteries, I expect this neat little earth battery array to power the 8 LEDs around the clock for 6-8 months. CM

1172536950 277 FT20570 Cupsinground1reduced

1172536950 277 FT20570 Cellsinground1reduced

1172536950 277 FT20570 Cellsinground2reduced

1172536950 277 FT20570 1ledlitwflashreduced

1172536950 277 FT20570 1lednoflashreduced

ragnar

Tue Feb 27 2007, 06:23AM

Registered Member #63 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:18AM
Location:
Posts: 1425

How's the longevity of an 'earth battery'... finite?

See, if you can poke conductive rods down to crap that's already underground, and it'll last "forever", it seems like a neat way to power e.g. an emergency/beacon flasher in a remote area... but it seems fairly weather dependent, and you have to be able to locate the underground junk in the first place.

Marko

Tue Feb 27 2007, 10:01AM

Registered Member #89 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 02:40PM
Location: Zadar, Croatia
Posts: 3145

See, if you can poke conductive rods down to crap that's already underground, and it'll last "forever", it seems like a neat way to power e.g. an emergency/beacon flasher in a remote area... but it seems fairly weather dependent, and you have to be able to locate the underground junk in the first place.

Earth batteries seem to be just very inefficient batteries utilizing dirt as an electrolyte. They were probably first and only used as a power source for telegraphs, and they do run out in few years or so (depending on power drawn, size of metal pieces and etc.

You would be much better if you used lemon juice or NaCl solution as electrolyte.

With telegraphs, with long enough distances, telluric currents could be utilized, and such a 'battery' wouldn't have to use electrochemistry and would last very long (not exactly infinite, since entropy is going to own the universe nevertheless).

Tue Feb 27 2007, 10:53AM

Banned on April 7, 2007
Registered Member #277 Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157

Right, earth batteries date back to the telegraph days (or before) and served their purpose well for their time. Every technology has it's Achilles heal, earth batteries, simply put, consume metal as the 'fuel' and power production goes down during times of drought. However, on the positive side, they are simple, cheap and easy to build and are on record as lasting fairly long periods of time depending on environmental factors, some old records claim years of operation. I've done extensive research into long wire installations, similar to those used during the telegraph days, long lengths of wire elevated above the ground. (I've got over 3,500 feet of wire elevated in the air as we speak). During the old days, it was discovered that many long telegraph lines would continue to operate for years after the earth battery had ceased to function. While I am convinced that some of the 'self-powering' telegraphs were due to telluric current, I am equally convinced that some of the 'self-powering' was derived from the telegraph wire being energized by air-borne ions. I've done years of research into ion power, and sure enough, from tests I've conducted myself on large acres of land, long wire telegraphs can operate with NO battery (or telluric currents) whatsoever, simply from ionic power received from the air. In part, the old tales of self-powering telegraphs encouraged me several years ago to investigate ion power, leading to developing my HV collectors that greatly enhance ionic collection by many orders of magnitude, compared to just a wire hanging in the air. In retrospect, I owe a debt to the 'old timers' in the Wild West who took time to write down that their telegraphs continued working even after the earth batteries stopped working. CM

Steve Conner

Wed Feb 28 2007, 02:47PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

I don't know if "heat from organic waste" is viable, but methane from rotting garbage certainly is. As part of my research, and lately my work, I've visited two large landfill sites where they get energy from waste in this way.

Once an area of the landfill is full, they cover it in plastic sheeting and earth. Then they bore holes down and insert plastic pipes into the world of stench down below. The pipes hook together into larger mains that lead back to a yard full of generators.

The gas that comes out is a mixture of methane, CO2 and air, and though it smells indescribably bad, it burns pretty nicely. One place I saw was running three huge Caterpillar natural gas gensets, and selling around 5 megawatts of electricity to the grid, pretty much 24/7. Now THAT is what I call an earth battery.

I heard there is a sewage works in LA that ferments all of the incoming, err "solids"

and gets nearer 40MW this way. I heard it was run by a company called CRAP, Inc. (Calorific Recovery Anaerobic Process) but that could be an urban legend.

BTW, it must be time to close the contest and start voting soon

...

Wed Feb 28 2007, 04:17PM

Registered Member #56 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:02AM
Location: Southern Califorina, USA
Posts: 2445

Hmm, since my mom works at said LA sanitation department, could I sumbit one of our composting plants?

It is pretty much what Steve said, basically a mountain (they fill over the trash with ground plants, and then grow grass/trees on it) with tons of gas pipes running all over. The stench isn't all that bad at the plant (b/c most of what goes in there is construction debris, probably only like 1/5 of the trucks is the smelly trash), although I will admit that I haven't smelled the gas they collect...

The do compost the 'solids' that they collect (but keep in mind that is mostly the bacteria that they use to digest the stuff coming in) although I do not believe they grenerate a ton of power from it (40MW seems a little high)

But it will certinly light my led

Wed Feb 28 2007, 10:01PM

Banned on April 7, 2007
Registered Member #277 Joined: Fri Mar 03 2006, 10:15AM
Location: Florida
Posts: 157

I too have visited a waste reclaimation plant, I'd say they do have a place in our future energy economy. After some more thought about Steve mentioning that I might enter my ion antenna ... I'm posting the below pix with some hesitation, because I've already posted as much info about it here on 4hv.org as I can prior to the patent issuing, and I don't want to further upset anyone by not answering additional technical questions. Nor do I want to appear to be a nut case who pretends he's solved the world's energy problems but keeps it hidden in a secret black box (as a few others have claimed in history). I've been kindly contacted by a number of moderators, Chris the head man, and several members encouraging me to go easy on claims that I'm not now willing to support with published data... and I agree. Therefore, I'm posting these pix with these understandings. 1) I do NOT claim to have solved the world's energy problems 2) the below LEDs are being lit purely by 100% ambient ionic energy and other naturally occuring energy collected from the air by my patent pending HV ion collectors and system (no earth battery or man-made consumables involved, no man-made RF energy involved). 3) This technology is NOT ready for commericalization due to several reasons including the patent has not yet issued. 4) Presently I'm only effectively converting a small fraction of the energy being delivered to my circuit (the conversion circuit shown is an older version, not the latest design). I consider my system a raw, primitive technology that requires significant refinement, but that has promising potential after the conversion circuits are refined/improved by people smarter than I, who I plan to hire after the patent issues. Demonstrating powering 8 jumbo LEDS (and/or a hydrogren fuel cell) from ambient energy provided by Nature is hopefully just the 1st baby step. It may never solve the energy problem, but I can hope, with more hard work, that it can help someday. CM

1172700100 277 FT20570 Powerconversioncircuitreduced

first previous 9 10 11 12 next last

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob