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Conundrum

Tue Feb 16 2016, 07:16AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062

Hmm.. I'm more intrigued about being able to alter states of consciousness without using pharmaceuticals.
This could be Nobel material for the lucky folks, surely.

My own research tentatively suggests that using low frequency EM waves, fading LEDs and audio at the same time might do strange things to the brain and I got as far as testing this a while ago but ran into safety issues with the intense EM needed (about the strength of an MRI to get any significant effects)

-A

Carbon_Rod

Tue Feb 16 2016, 11:16PM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

In general,
the brain is very complex, but fundamentally the affects of most "drugs" can be classified into around 8 categories of simple chemistry.

However, Hallucinogens are not as well understood, and in some documented cases cause symptoms similar to schizophrenia.

Every few years... kids die by poisoning themselves trying to get high...
The toxicity of the plant is an interesting subject, as the delusional state does not seem to trigger addictive tendencies.
Read: 2 weeks in full psychosis rolling in ones own excrement is not going to be fun...

The first step in any real Science is asking how your actions will benefit society.
No one has cited a miner's canary yet...

Conundrum

Sat Apr 02 2016, 04:03AM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062

Being able to detect CSD (cortical spreading depression) would help a lot of folks with chronic migraine.

Proud Mary

Sat Apr 02 2016, 11:02AM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

NICE investigated TMS to see whether or not it should be prescribed on the NHS. This 2011 study concluded that while TMS was not harmful, there was as yet insufficient evidence of a positive therepeutic effect to justify providing it on the NHS. Dubious 'private' practitioners who charge money to treat people have moved in to fill the gap.

According to NICE, Transcranial direct current stimulation has produced some encouraging results in the treatment of depression, and is obviously easier to implement (electrodes located on the scalp and a variable DC supply 0 - 30V) but is not sufficiently understood to declare it safe enough for unsupervised use outside of a clinical research environment. (see: Transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) for depression, NICE interventional procedure guidance [IPG530] August 2015)

There is also Transcranial alternating current stimulation According to wikipedia: Two electrodes are used: a stimulating one over the target cortex, and a reference one elsewhere, such as on the top of the head or on the neck. The size of the stimulation electrode is around 3 x 4 cm and the reference electrode has three times the surface area so as to reduce current density and limit stimulating the skin. They are held in place by elastic bands, and the hair and skin are saturated with saline solution for about 5â€“10 minutes. There is an initial sensation on the scalp but, after the initial few minutes, this fades.[3]

The alternating current applied is sinusoidal at a voltage of 5 to 15V.[citation needed] The current density under the stimulation electrode is about 83Î¼A per square cm.[2][3]

The benefits, if any, of transcranial alternating current stimulation are unclear to me.

Nik

Fri Apr 08 2016, 10:06AM

Registered Member #53 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:31AM
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 638

I wish there was more serious (less hand-wavey pseudo) research into this kind of stuff. For a human designed system you can fuzz it with weird inputs, patterns, noise, spikes or something else to find unexpected behaviour. Why not fuzz the analogue computers in our heads to see if there are any useful unexpected behaviours.

There are a few (non-useful) vision examples I can think of related to motion, watching scrolling credits or high way driving for extended periods then looking at a stationary image will give you the illusion of motion, but other than that I can't think of any other "software" ways to get your brain to act funny.

Conundrum, were the effects of the EM, visuals and audio something that is immediately obvious to the subject or something that is measurable by instrument only?

Sulaiman

Fri Apr 08 2016, 11:17AM

Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3141

I almost went catatonic once whilst experimenting with a high power xenon strobe at about 11 Hz
So please have a 'buddy' with you when experimenting.

Conundrum

Fri Apr 08 2016, 01:11PM

Registered Member #96 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 05:37PM
Location: CI, Earth
Posts: 4062

Thanks folks.
Yes, there were effects that showed up on an EEG but some people get bad reactions to MRI scanners due to the rhythmic pulsing.
I also read an article suggesting that if you feed back one component of someone's EEG back as flashing lights it can trigger a seizure and/or catatony in close to half the population.

Nik

Fri Apr 08 2016, 09:49PM

Registered Member #53 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 04:31AM
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 638

I got to try a brainwave toy this week and was wondering what it would be like if the output was put to light or sound. Some people are really good at calming themselves (and winning) I would have liked to see if having feed back would make it better or worse.

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