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Registered Member #3324
Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
Location:
Posts: 1276
Hello 4hv, as some of you know, i recently got hold of a few IGBT modules:
Now, these IGBTs, for those who will not open the PDF are: - 1700V max - 800A with 1600A pulse.
It has a max dissipation of 5kW on delay = 1.60us rise time = 2.00us off delay = 2.70us fall time = 0.80us
From my, rather uneducated guesses. The highest bus voltage i could likely run it at is around 1400V or maybe 1500V
7.1uS total to F = 141kHz someone said to divide that number by 50, giving me: 2.8kHz... is that the fastest i should run it at then? meaning its unsuitable for teslacoils or ferrite transformers?....
For driving such a IGBT, would i need a 15v/3.3 = 4.5A power supply for gate drive, how would i calculate the peaks?
Could someone check though my thoughs, im quite sure many of them are wrong, maybe point me the correct way to work out gate driving and maximum frequency?
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
Firstly, my windows desktop calculator says 141/50=2.82kHz......but I read somewhere here to divide by 10, which still only gives 14kHz......or was it just switching times without delay times?
Registered Member #3414
Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245
As I suggested above, from what I remember, I don't think you include the delay times, just the switching times, but I'm not certain about this. I was hoping someone else would comment.
Registered Member #3324
Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
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Posts: 1276
Hmm well... Im sure there would be some way to make use of these giant IGBTs with ferrite or tesla coils... heck, maybe both.
I think the extra 500v max could be rather useful, it means you could have doubled 3 phase input.... quite neat, saddly i don't have 3 phase, but still, a tesla coils made from these things would have that capability...
Registered Member #4074
Joined: Mon Aug 29 2011, 06:58AM
Location: Australia
Posts: 335
Thomas W wrote ...
Hmm well... Im sure there would be some way to make use of these giant IGBTs with ferrite or tesla coils... heck, maybe both.
I bought a large "nano crystalline" steel C core, wound with extremely thin silicon steel tape. It's got a 25mm^2 cross-section and a 150mm x 150mm winding window, so you can fit a decent sized HV coil on it. I imagine it would perform well somewhere between 1kHz - 20kHz, maybe even lower, I still need to test it out. It was quite cheap on Ebay (cheaper than some of the ferrite sold by Element14, RS, etc) and when I just checked they were still available.
I got the core because I have a 1200V 75A Semikron IGBT module that's been sitting around for ages waiting to be turned into a nice high power half-bridge inverter. I thought it would be easier to start with a lower frequency to lessen insulation and stray inductance problems whilst learning, before attempting to design a large inverter to operate at Tesla coil frequencies. With a few cores stacked together you could make an immense HV SMPS using your IGBTs.
Registered Member #162
Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3141
The gate drive signals (high power signals !) can be timed to compensate for the difference between the turn on delsy and turn off delay so you only have to consider the rise and fall times. The large input capacitance will require a 'strong' gate driver and the large output capacitance will result in large switching losses = heat.
I'd be tempted to consider a 'zvs' T.C. primary which would massively reduce switching losses with separate gate drive circuitry. Full-wave rectified line voltage (230 Vac) or doubler (110 Vac) would be about right for the dc bus I guess operation above 20 kHz would be possible but thats a large TC secondary and topload and copper prices are painful !
don't cosider the 'simple' zvs inverter with 300 Vdc .. doomed to failure.
Registered Member #3324
Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
Location:
Posts: 1276
GrantX wrote ...
Thomas W wrote ...
Hmm well... Im sure there would be some way to make use of these giant IGBTs with ferrite or tesla coils... heck, maybe both.
I bought a large "nano crystalline" steel C core, wound with extremely thin silicon steel tape. It's got a 25mm^2 cross-section and a 150mm x 150mm winding window, so you can fit a decent sized HV coil on it. I imagine it would perform well somewhere between 1kHz - 20kHz, maybe even lower, I still need to test it out. It was quite cheap on Ebay (cheaper than some of the ferrite sold by Element14, RS, etc) and when I just checked they were still available.
I got the core because I have a 1200V 75A Semikron IGBT module that's been sitting around for ages waiting to be turned into a nice high power half-bridge inverter. I thought it would be easier to start with a lower frequency to lessen insulation and stray inductance problems whilst learning, before attempting to design a large inverter to operate at Tesla coil frequencies. With a few cores stacked together you could make an immense HV SMPS using your IGBTs.
Cool, that sounds useful, would you be able to link me to them as they are not showing up on my searches? And sure, i think it might be a better idea to make a lower frequency one first before trying to rise it.
Sulaiman wrote ...
The gate drive signals (high power signals !) can be timed to compensate for the difference between the turn on delsy and turn off delay so you only have to consider the rise and fall times. The large input capacitance will require a 'strong' gate driver and the large output capacitance will result in large switching losses = heat.
I'd be tempted to consider a 'zvs' T.C. primary which would massively reduce switching losses with separate gate drive circuitry. Full-wave rectified line voltage (230 Vac) or doubler (110 Vac) would be about right for the dc bus I guess operation above 20 kHz would be possible but thats a large TC secondary and topload and copper prices are painful !
don't cosider the 'simple' zvs inverter with 300 Vdc .. doomed to failure.
Hmm, okey, that could be an idea worth looking into. I've been thinking of a High power SMPS and also maybe a DRSSTC, the big issue, ofcourse is the size / amount of copper. not to mention getting some PVC pipe big enough...
I plan to likely get a few heatsinks made up at a company called Power Products International, a company i met at a convention, showcasing their products. They do aluminium heatsinks with pressed copper pipe into them at a fairly good price for these things. (i haven't got a quote, but they said around £70-90)
Registered Member #3324
Joined: Sun Oct 17 2010, 06:57PM
Location:
Posts: 1276
Any reccomendations on testing these IGBTs?
I just hooked it up with a fan between live (12v)and the Collector and Emitter tied to ground, then i tried to use my finger on live & the gate, then i tried using a wire between live and gate, yet none of the igbt modules responded at all, all 4 bricks with 8 igbts in them.. i tried checking them with multimeters to check the diode and there was no beep or numbers coming up no matter what way i used them.
Is it the voltage im using though the IGBTs not enough? this test worked fine on the 1MBI600s but not on these CM800s.
Registered Member #235
Joined: Wed Feb 22 2006, 04:59PM
Location:
Posts: 80
Thomas W wrote ...
Now, these IGBTs, for those who will not open the PDF are: - 1700V max - 800A with 1600A pulse.
From my, rather uneducated guesses. The highest bus voltage i could likely run it at is around 1400V or maybe 1500V
For the products we make, the limit we use for 1700v IGBTs is 1kV DC bus voltages. This is for hard switched variable frequency drives/inverters. For snubbing we only use tab capacitors will very low ESR on the modules. You could probably safely increase the bus voltage if you used some RCD snubbers, but we don't because the efficiency hit.
Edit: To add these guidelines are for products with 10 and 20 year expected lifetimes.
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The driving of huge IGBTs...(Along with general usage)
