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weather, jet stream and HAARP

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LAN_403

BigBad

Tue Mar 11 2014, 09:41PM

Registered Member #2529 Joined: Thu Dec 10 2009, 02:43AM
Location:
Posts: 600

The power of the jetstream is easy to look up, but isn't actually the question.

What you want to know is how much power you need to apply to one side to kink it a little; because once you've done the little kink it self-reinforces; it gets bigger and bigger.

Patrick

Wed Mar 12 2014, 01:05AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Ash Small wrote ...

Patrick wrote ...

But does the MSK mean Russian submarines have to wait 12 minutes to find out if we Americans have weapons in flight?

The submarines are a deterrent, they ensure that any nuclear attack will not destroy the capability to 'hit back'.

I suppose ultra low bandwidth would be good enough then.

Furthermore, how cool would it be to have a homebrew phased array radar in your garage!

Ash Small

Wed Mar 12 2014, 10:22AM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Patrick wrote ...

Furthermore, how cool would it be to have a homebrew phased array radar in your garage!

I wouldn't want to pay the electric bill!!

Uspring

Wed Mar 12 2014, 10:56AM

Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711

Bored Chemist wrote:

Would anyone like to calculate the power ratings of
1 the jetstream and
2 HAARP
for me please?

I really like back of the envelope estimates, so here it goes:
Length of stream: 1000km
Width: 100km
Height: 2km
Mass: 0.2kg/m^3 due to lower air pressure
Speed: 100m/s

-> Energy: 2e17 J

Power of HAARP: 2 GW

So you would need about 1e8 s or about 3 years of continuous power to generate one. Looks unlikely, since friction losses wouldn't allow for an energy buildup in the stream over that amount of time. This is very ballbark, but might give a feeling for the magnitudes involved.

Electricity bill: 5 billion $

Proud Mary

Wed Mar 12 2014, 12:02PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Has there been some sort of confusion in this thread between the jet stream, and the auroral electrojet with which HAARP emissions most certainly do interact?*

*M. B. Cohen, M. Golkowski, U. S. Inan Orientation of the HAARP ELF ionospheric dipole and the auroral electrojet GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 35, L02806, doi:10.1029/2007GL032424, 2008

Proud Mary

Wed Mar 12 2014, 02:43PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Here is a Google Earth image of the EISCAT ionospheric heating facility at Ramfjordmoen near TromsÃ¸, Norway.

The white circle is a parabolic refector. To its left, in the grey rectangle, are what I would characterise as tiltable trough reflectors, though they probably have some more elegant name. A square clearing in the trees NNW of Point "A" contains another array.

And here is a 1991 US Patent patent for High power low frequency communications by ionospheric modification

Patrick

Wed Mar 12 2014, 05:24PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Uspring wrote ...

Power of HAARP: 2 GW

i thought it was 3.6Mw?

Proud Mary

Wed Mar 12 2014, 06:25PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Patrick wrote ...

Uspring wrote ...

Power of HAARP: 2 GW

i thought it was 3.6Mw?

I think 2GW was Uspring's calculation responding to a sceptical question posed by Bored Chemist which was intended to debunk the bizarre stories about HAARP interfering with the jet stream. I'd never heard of this nonsense about HAARP before, but perhaps it started by people confusing the jet stream with the electrojet. In any case, there are lots of silly stories online about HAARP being some sort of secret weapon.

So far as HAARP research relates to ELF communication with submarines, it certainly would have been secret during the Cold War, but nowadays both US HAARP and Russian ZEVS research appears in open journals, and the Cold War bogeyman should be laid to rest.

Patrick

Wed Mar 12 2014, 06:33PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Ah, i misunderstood the 2GW remark.

but clearly the HAARP is a weapon used by fox news, to make a buzzing noise only Al Gore can hear...

ANd heres some like minded DIY'ers, regarding phased arrays:

and here:

Proud Mary

Wed Mar 12 2014, 09:14PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Yeah, I've been thinking lately about different DIY wifi antenna options that I could make for a bit of fun and no great cost, including phased array beam formers for 2.4GHz and 5 GHz. The 5GHz elements are so small you could get quite a lot of them on a base the size of a chess board, a kind of micro HAARP I guess. (Did I tell you that a B52 that went off radar over the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964 has been located undamaged on the Moon?)

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