weather, jet stream and HAARP / General Science and Electronics / Forums

Forums

4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics

« Previous topic | Next topic »

weather, jet stream and HAARP

previous 1 2 3 4 next

Move Thread

LAN_403

Proud Mary

Mon Mar 10 2014, 07:58PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Patrick wrote ...

Proud Mary, consider how impotent the ruskies really are, russian nuclear bombardment would have been trivial in an attempted "X-ray pin down" compared to the USAF Nike-Spartan nuclear "shield", having been deployed over the US.

It's my understanding that the unexpected results of the STARFISH PRIME extra-atmospheric thermonuclear test of 1962 revolutionised strategic thinking about nuclear weapons applications - and also made their use more attractive. No longer need a nuclear bomb unselectively destroy everything and everyone inside its blast radius. By exploding the weapon in the ionosphere, no blast effects would be felt, but the X-rays produced would generate EMP sufficient to degrade electrical and electronic systems while leaving valuable buildings and real estate intact. This would create a small time window when ICBMs could be unobserved by radar.
That was the theory of 'x-ray pindown' but we are fortunate not to know how effective it might have been.

President Kennedy didn't share your confidence in the Nike nuclear shield when the Soviets started to prepare sites for R-12 intermediate range missiles on Cuba in August 1962, just a month after STARFISH PRIME, though I am not suggesting there was any connection.

Here are some details of STARFISH PRIME which I have copied from the Nuclear Weapons Archive:

"Test: Starfish Prime
Time: 9:00 9 July 1962 (GMT)
Location: Johnston Island
Test Height and Type: Thor Missile Airburst; 248 miles
Yield: 1450 kt
Device Diameter (inches): 20
Device Length (inches): 54.3
Device Weight (lb.): 1665

This was the second attempt to launch the Starfish test. The original Starfish was launched on 20 June, but the Thor missile engine cut out only 59 seconds after launch. The range safety officer sent the destruct signal 65 seconds after launch, and the missile was destroyed at 30-35,000 ft. The warhead high explosive detonated in 1-point safe fashion, destroying the warhead without producing nuclear yield. Large pieces of the missile fell back on Johnston Island, and more wreckage along with plutonium contamination was found on nearby Sand Island.

Starfish Prime was successful. The Thor missile carried the test instrumentation and the W-49 warhead/Mk-4 RV payload to 248 miles. The test appeared quite spectacular from Hawaii (800 miles away) and at Kwajalein (1600 miles away), with impressive light displays from an artifical aurora lasting up to seven minutes. The electromagnetic pulse (EMP) from this test sent power line surges throughout Oahu, knocking out street lighting, blowing fuzes and circuit breakers, and triggering burglar alarms.

The W-49 warhead used in this test was used on the Thor, Atlas, Jupiter, and Titan missiles, and was a descendant of the versatile Mk-28 thermonuclear bomb. "

Patrick

Mon Mar 10 2014, 08:17PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

weve strayed abit, but high altitude stuff is still interesting.

I was always told the Spartan missile would be more dangerous to america, as bad or worse than the russian incoming weapon it was meant to destroy. And supposedly, the army and air force had special orders signed so that this defense system would never be used, even in a russian attack.

there must be video of the 2 nuclear space shots. (i think there were 2.)

Proud Mary

Mon Mar 10 2014, 10:38PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

Here is Google Earth's view of HAARP. As one can see, half of the array has been crudely censored by pixelation, which is only to be expected.

There is a very interesting page about research at HAARP by the Stanford VLF Group here:

Most here will be aware that only at ELF can EM waves penetrate to any extent in sea water to commmunicate with submerged submarines. At these long wavelengths antennas must be extremely long to have any efficiency. The Russian Zevs antenna, for transmitting to submarines worldwide on 82Hz, is 52 km long. The US Navy had a similar system called Seafarer, which transmitted on 76Hz and also had an antenna tens of miles long. Against this background, one can understand the need for alternate antenna options, which is where the HAARP experiments fits in. The marine buoys used in the Stanford VLF experiments certainly point to maritime applications.

Patrick

Tue Mar 11 2014, 01:03AM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

very cool link ! modulating a huge antenna without a giant cord leading up to the upper atmospere.

Proud Mary

Tue Mar 11 2014, 12:16PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

According to one Norwegian author, HAARP has been used for test transmissions to submarines at frequencies as low as the almost unbelievable 2.2Hz, a slow roller-coaster of a ride!

Also notice on the same page, that since the end of the Cold War, civilian scientists have been allowed to perform geophysical experiments using the Russian ZEVS ELF facility, which is what I think has happened at HAARP.

Patrick

Tue Mar 11 2014, 05:09PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Proud Mary wrote ...

According to one Norwegian author, HAARP has been used for test transmissions to submarines at frequencies as low as the almost unbelievable 2.2Hz, a slow roller-coaster of a ride!

This is a great link ! But does the MSK mean Russian submarines have to wait 12 minutes to find out if we Americans have weapons in flight?

Ash Small

Tue Mar 11 2014, 05:20PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Patrick wrote ...

But does the MSK mean Russian submarines have to wait 12 minutes to find out if we Americans have weapons in flight?

The submarines are a deterrent, they ensure that any nuclear attack will not destroy the capability to 'hit back'.

Proud Mary

Tue Mar 11 2014, 08:44PM

Registered Member #543 Joined: Tue Feb 20 2007, 04:26PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4992

I've just learned that we have ionospheric heating experiments running here in Europe too:

"EISCAT, the European Incoherent Scatter Scientific Association, is established to conduct research on the lower, middle and upper atmosphere and ionosphere using the incoherent scatter radar technique. This technique is the most powerful ground-based tool for these research applications. EISCAT is also being used as a coherent scatter radar for studying instabilities in the ionosphere, as well as for investigating the structure and dynamics of the middle atmosphere and as a diagnostic instrument in ionospheric modification experiments with the Heating facility."

EISCAT is here:

BigBad

Tue Mar 11 2014, 09:28PM

Registered Member #2529 Joined: Thu Dec 10 2009, 02:43AM
Location:
Posts: 600

On the face of it moving the jetstream is stupid. It's a stream of air with stupendous power, you'd be as likely to be able to stop the Earth rotating.

However the path of the jet stream path is positive-feedback type unstable, if you consistently lent on one side of it by heating the air or something you might be well able to move it with relatively small amounts of energy.

However in practice I'm sure it doesn't work, at least not using radiowaves like that. The jet stream is much, much lower than the height of the ionosphere; the jet stream is up to 12km, whereas the ionosphere is found at 85km!!! That's a bit of a GAP!

Still, in theory if you could find some frequencies that are absorbed lower down, you could theoretically focus radiowaves at it and try and move it.

I don't know off-hand to calculate how much power you would need to make a measurable difference, I suspect it's a lot. There's also the problem that if you were successful, the weather pattern would roll away from overhead, and then you'd be screwed; it would only work when it's within line of sight.

Bored Chemist

Tue Mar 11 2014, 09:36PM

Registered Member #193 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 07:04AM
Location: sheffield
Posts: 1022

Would anyone like to calculate the power ratings of
1 the jetstream and
2 HAARP
for me please?

previous 1 2 3 4 next

Moderator(s): Chris Russell, Noelle, Alex, Tesladownunder, Dave Marshall, Dave Billington, Bjørn, Steve Conner, Wolfram, Kizmo, Mads Barnkob