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4hv.org :: Forums :: General Science and Electronics
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propagation of errors

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IamSmooth
Mon Mar 03 2014, 02:44AM Print
IamSmooth Registered Member #190 Joined: Fri Feb 17 2006, 12:00AM
Location:
Posts: 1567
I have seen different methods for multiplication/division which includes the simple addition of the fractional error to quadratures.

Here is a reference: Link2

Which is it?

If I have A = 2 +/- 0.05 and B = 1 +/- 0.01
A*B is easy as it is dA/A + dB/B

or, I have seen it as error = sqrt(sqr(dA/A) + sqr(dB/B))

Which is it?

Finally, the reference states the error for division is dA/A - dB/B
For my example this gives an error of +/- 0.015 (.05/2 - 0.01/1)
However, if I do a maximum error analysis:

2.05/0.99 - 1.95/1.01 I get 0.14, or +/- 0.07

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BigBad
Tue Mar 04 2014, 04:05PM
BigBad Registered Member #2529 Joined: Thu Dec 10 2009, 02:43AM
Location:
Posts: 600
I can't remember the correct way to do this; I know how to do addition, but not multiplication.

But I certainly don't think your 'maximum error analysis' is legitimate.

Don't forget these are standard deviations not maximums.

If you do that kind of calculation you do then you're kind of assuming worse case for both; which rarely happens; it's not a statistically valid step, you're giving the unlikely case too much weight.
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Sulaiman
Tue Mar 04 2014, 06:51PM
Sulaiman Registered Member #162 Joined: Mon Feb 13 2006, 10:25AM
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3140
For a true mathematical answer, wait for someone else to reply,
and don't expect to understand it from the document pointed to,
for typical electronics calculations, the precision commonly achievable
is such that 'errors in errors' (propagation of errors) is a vanishingly small number,
usually well below any achievable noise floor, or transducer/sensor error,
so it is fairly safe to say that percentile errors just add together,
e.g. three multipliers of 0.1% error gives 0.3% error,
the rest is buried in noise.

P.S if you have many stages multiplying errors then;
. the above is over-simplified
. the methodology wasn't thought through rigorously
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Shrad
Tue Mar 04 2014, 09:29PM
Shrad Registered Member #3215 Joined: Sun Sept 19 2010, 08:42PM
Location:
Posts: 780
anyway, if you want to calculate something for an electronic circuit accurately, you use multiples of 10 resistors and one or two trimpots ;)
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Uspring
Wed Mar 05 2014, 05:45AM
Uspring Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711
If I have A = 2 +/- 0.05 and B = 1 +/- 0.01
A*B is easy as it is dA/A + dB/B

This is true for the propagation of maximum errors. You also must use the absolute values of dA/A and dB/B.

or, I have seen it as error = sqrt(sqr(dA/A) + sqr(dB/B))

Which is it?
This is for average errors and only if the errors for A and B are independent. That would be the case if A and B come from different measurements.

Finally, the reference states the error for division is dA/A - dB/B
For my example this gives an error of +/- 0.015 (.05/2 - 0.01/1)
That's wrong. It must be dA/A + dB/B and again using absolute values of dA/A and dB/B.

However, if I do a maximum error analysis:

2.05/0.99 - 1.95/1.01 I get 0.14, or +/- 0.07
0.07 is the absolute error of the quotient, 0.035 the relative. This coincides with
dA/A + dB/B.
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tobias
Thu Mar 06 2014, 01:00AM
tobias Registered Member #1956 Joined: Wed Feb 04 2009, 01:22PM
Location: Jersey City
Posts: 172
If you are interested on Measurement, I suggest reading the ISO GUM. It is THE bible for measurement errors and uncertainties calculation

Link2
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Fraggle
Fri Mar 07 2014, 06:32AM
Fraggle Registered Member #1526 Joined: Mon Jun 09 2008, 12:56AM
Location: UK
Posts: 216
Ahhhh, I love the smell of error analysis in the morning...

Errors are just small changes in the output of a function in respect of small changes in the input variables. More usefully, the partial derivative of your function, taken in respect of one of its variables and multiplied by the error in that variable equals that variable`s absolute contribution to the output error, as per ordinary calculus.

If you add the contributions from each variable together in quadrature then you`ll have the error in the result.

That`s all of error analysis - if you can differentiate then you can do any errors ever ever
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