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Dr. Slack

Wed Feb 19 2014, 09:13AM

Registered Member #72 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 08:29AM
Location: UK St. Albans
Posts: 1659

... just where our built infrastructure presently nails the population and the food production to the surface of the planet, and the political/military turmoil it will take to shift it.

Lovelocke's musings in today's Grauniad

a fun paragraph from the above article

Humanity is in a period exactly like 1938-9, he explains, when "we all knew something terrible was going to happen, but didn't know what to do about it". But once the second world war was under way, "everyone got excited, they loved the things they could do, it was one long holiday ... so when I think of the impending crisis now, I think in those terms. A sense of purpose - that's what people want."

Statement of interest - I will almost certainly be dead in 25 years, so I'm a completely disinterested party.

What do the people who are going to be still around think?

Shrad

Thu Feb 20 2014, 09:05AM

Registered Member #3215 Joined: Sun Sept 19 2010, 08:42PM
Location:
Posts: 780

as a person whose fantasies list contains "mad max world", I prefer not to answer... ;)

I cant say anyway that the next step for humanity is in collaborative work and recentering towards nature and earth

Uspring

Thu Feb 20 2014, 09:25AM

Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711

Statement of interest - I will almost certainly be dead in 25 years, so I'm a completely disinterested party.

You are not programmed to be like this. Survival of the species is part of the genetic program.

Anyway, I disagree with almost everything Lovelocke says,e.g. Gaia stuff or renewables. The first thing is an analogy stretched too far and the latter works already in some parts of the world.

Carbon_Rod

Sun Feb 23 2014, 09:42AM

Registered Member #65 Joined: Thu Feb 09 2006, 06:43AM
Location:
Posts: 1155

People tend to avoid exploring the physics problem, but it is centered around some fairly solid science.
1.) Ice core isotopes correlating with radioisotope profiles in sediment plankton fossil populations
2.) Fossil fuel isotopes proving CO2 levels is due to human related activity. Note plant & human respiration are short term carbon-cycles that don't cause this phenomena. i.e. a wood fireplace produces negligible gain in the overall concentrations (5 years), but oil/gas only add to the mix (7 million years to cycle out).
3.) CO2 being the dominant green house gas emission (water & cloud vapor have not changed much)
4.) land mass distribution, ice/snow surface reflectivity (i.e. reduces green house effect), and sea level changes (glaciers cause level changes while sea ice does not).
5.) Ph changes in ocean, think of corals as a huge antacid tablet that regulates soluble CO2. See point 6 as the growth cycles start to fail.
6.) Amplifying feedback systems which exceed a race condition threshold... i.e. burning all fossil fuels in 50 years will guarantee extinction of numerous morons and scientists alike. Although the CO2 levels in earths history have been much higher than the past 100 thousand years, it does not mean human beings will be able to physiologically adapt fast enough to survive the rapid changes over 300 years.
7.) Geo-engineering is impossible to maintain in perpetuity, and even if people exhausted the mines on earth... the Ph would bounce back within 10 months.

Not everyone will suffer the same in each scenario, and in many cases there is a projected economic upside for many. You may want to seek a dual citizenship if you live in coastal regions of Europe, as we exceeded the worst case conservative estimates last year.

Uspring

Mon Feb 24 2014, 06:35AM

Registered Member #3988 Joined: Thu Jul 07 2011, 03:25PM
Location:
Posts: 711

@Carbon Rod:
I think your points are all valid. A cause for my resentment about Lovelockes position is his defeatism. My hope is, that there won't be enough fossil fuel to raise CO2 beyond runaway thresholds and that the fight for habitable zones will not be too violent.
The more you do now, the less awful the end will be. Still, the best case scenario will be bad enough.

Steve Conner

Mon Mar 31 2014, 10:10PM

Registered Member #30 Joined: Fri Feb 03 2006, 10:52AM
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 6706

The first vineyard in Scotland opened recently. Hopefully producing more than just cheap fortified wine.

Joking aside, we also have the biggest potential renewable energy resources in Europe and all of our major cities are well above sea level.

Ash Small

Mon Mar 31 2014, 11:32PM

Registered Member #3414 Joined: Sun Nov 14 2010, 05:05PM
Location: UK
Posts: 4245

Steve Conner wrote ...

The first vineyard in Scotland opened recently. Hopefully producing more than just cheap fortified wine.

Joking aside, we also have the biggest potential renewable energy resources in Europe and all of our major cities are well above sea level.

I guess you'll be voting 'yes' to independance

Patrick

Tue Apr 08 2014, 11:12PM

Registered Member #2431 Joined: Tue Oct 13 2009, 09:47PM
Location: Chico, CA. USA
Posts: 5639

Dr. Slack wrote ...

Statement of interest - I will almost certainly be dead in 25 years, so I'm a completely disinterested party.

What do the people who are going to be still around think?

i guess i probly have 70+ years left on the planet.

ive considered a great deal on "climate change" as we call it now, (since the enviro-leftists got it wrong in the 90's apparently.) i beleive thought experiements are important, as well as the deliberate careful considering of known facts and measurments. (As Carbon Rod did well pointing out above.)

But having said this, im not covinced either side has the climate figured out, and climate change/increase in temperature may be prooved or demonstrated undeniably in the future. However, above all else my expericence at CSU Chico, and other Universities in the US, exposed me to the shocking practice of the federal grants for finding quid pro quo results, you affirm climate change or youll never get another grant again, and may be investigated by the GAO/IRS/non gov' activist class. (i was told this by professors who will remain nameless for their own protection, and i observed other "uglyness" along these lines.) so i do worry wether climate change turns out to be true or not, detrimental or not, that the left has arranged a system that demands absolute loyalty and conformity without question. For the pupose of accumalting wealth and political power in their own hands, and deniying fair play to others in a given society.

Also, consensus, feeling good and rightouesness isnt how science works, Mr. Gore. And for the left, calling people who feel differently "halocuast deniers" isnt productive either.

Hazmatt_(The Underdog)

Wed Apr 09 2014, 12:35AM

Registered Member #135 Joined: Sat Feb 11 2006, 12:06AM
Location: Anywhere is fine
Posts: 1735

Since "Global Warming" didn't stick, now they're going with "Climate Change"

From my point of view (stirring the pot of course), this is:
1. A Cult
2. A Farse
3. Pseudoscience <--- FACT

So the only question remains... Which religon do you belong to?

1. Born again Climatologist <-- they are literally "on fire" for the climate, also known as the "ELF"
2. Protestant-Warmist <-- Largest denomination, usually pushing the politics of environmentalism...while beating you over the head with a Hg filled bulb
3. Orthodox-Warmist <-- believe in the return of the "global messiah", but not in the form of Al Gore
4. Illumaniticologists <-- the same folks that brought you the "Carbon Offset" so they could control the world economy
5. Communitologists <-- Al Gore's religon
6. Socialitologist < -- Mostly EU/US/AUS and government mouthpieces, Socialists of course
7. Atheologist <-- I belong to this group, the "non-believers", of course as a Scientist, I know the climate changes at 0.2C per 100 years.
8. Southern Baptimologist <-- they take up serpants and pray the warming gods keep a cool head
9. Heaven's Gate Recyclists <-- they believe that they will go up and re-join the recycling facility asteroid

There's many more factions of course.

Shrad

Wed Apr 09 2014, 08:15AM

Registered Member #3215 Joined: Sun Sept 19 2010, 08:42PM
Location:
Posts: 780

the only thing to know is that the current societal models have come to their limits and will not be able to sustain themselves anymore

we plant square kilometers of corn or anything else and we wonder why there is erosion and floods... we place thousands of bovines in thousands of square kilometers and we worry about nitrates being produced... we fertilize in excess to keep modified vegetables alive while they pray to die

I've been worried lately about the fact that the crop we grow are overly modified by phyto products to be more profitable (grain is smaller by the use of hormones and a 40cm crop was 1.5m high 100 years ago)

These hormones and phyto products are a vast plot to make profit while you can have the same productivity in a smaller area by diversifying the species and adopting a more sustainable scheme

This is no permaculture hype but a real problem, and those companies took stocks of chemicals from the second world war to produce what we have now, and they are now producing more and more crap

As far as climate change, I totally agree that there is no global warming but a global change

There are areas getting colder, some getting hotter, some getting more rain, and some getting drier... the only thing that seems wrong for me is the rate of change for some major things

We had, here in Belgium, absolutely no winter, and seasons are not the same as ten years ago... we are also seeing an increase of tempests and see small tornadoes appear more often..

Still, I don't think the weather is hotter, just different... and two weeks of 20Â°C in November are quite weird while a year before it was -15Â°C and 40cm of snow... as well as 12Â°C in June or 30Â°C in April... it just gets erratic and I feel a global change is going on with core weather processes

For me, the best approach to react is to grow my vegs, have a couple chickens, reuse stuff to get more or better crops, and be a bit more self-sustainable... and f*cking flame my neighbors to burn their plastics in a barrel 15m away from my tomatoes...

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